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How do you teach anything about the civil rights movement without covering how white people fought it? How do you cover segregation without talking about how w

by olliej 5y ago

How do you teach anything about the civil rights movement without covering how white people fought it? How do you cover segregation without talking about how white people enforced it? Or how the GI bill functionally only applies to white veterans (because of segregation) How redlining and sunset towns prevented African Americans from living in “white areas” Similar for slavery in the US, or the related pre-police groups existing to enforce slavery. And the civil war: conservatives (now the gop) are hellbent on labeling not a war about “states rights”, when it was clearly and explicitly stated to be about slavery. We can also look at the trail of tears, and other attempts to systematically exterminate native Americans, or acquisition of Native American land You cannot teach about any of these subjects without calling attention to the behaviour of white Americans. Therefore making it trivial for any white person to sue for violation of this law.

scollet 5y ago
Sue, and from interpretations of other sub-sections, outright bar educational material on these grounds. ``` 103 (2) Members of the instructional staff of the public 104 schools, subject to the rules of the State Board of Education 105 and the district school board, shall teach efficiently and 106 faithfully, using the books and materials required that meet the 107 highest standards for professionalism and historical accuracy, 108 following the prescribed courses of study, and employing 109 approved methods of instruction``` ... ``` 485 (4) Each district school board is responsible for the 486 content of all materials used in a classroom or otherwise made 487 available to students. Each district school board shall adopt 488 rules, and each district school superintendent shall implement 489 procedures, that: 490 (b) Provide a process for public review of, public comment 491 on, and the adoption of instructional materials ```
lp0_on_fire 5y ago
You can teach all of those things without pushing collective guilt by association simply because a student shares the same skin pigment with someone who has been dead for decades or centuries. Johnny Fifth Grader did not enslave anyone. Johnny Fifth Grader did not "systematically exterminate" anyone. You neglect to mention the millions of white Americans that _supported_ the civil rights movement. Or the 500k or so of them that died in order to end the civil war and slavery. This is the kind of attitude that this bill is trying to combat. Despite what some may think, American history is far more nuanced than "white people bad".
- olliej 5y ago
  No. You cannot teach those things, without providing grounds for someone to sue you. You cannot teach the above topics, without talking about the races of the oppressor, and the oppressed, and if you talk about white people being the oppressors then little Johnny fifth grader's parents can sue, saying that they feel discomfort at the idea of little Johnny being taught that white people were the ones owning black people. That is the intent of the law, and pretending that it isn't is a clear indication of argument in bad faith.
  - lp0_on_fire 5y ago
    This law does not prevent teaching that _individual_ white people or that _groups_ of white people were oppressors. It's aimed at those who are interested in painting the narrative that _all_ white people are/were oppressors. You are deliberately misreading it to push your politics-du-jour.
    - olliej 5y ago
      No one is pushing that perspective. America was founded with white people saying that black people were not human. The economy was built on slavery. White people wanting to own black people is why the American civil war happened. White people were the driving force behind Jim Crow laws, segregation, etc, etc You cannot teach any of that without being sued. No one has said “everyone” had slaves. No one has said “everyone supported him crow laws”. Here’s the biggest tell: the people making the most noise about CRT are the ones who like the confederate flag and statues of people who by definition committed treason, for the express purpose of owning black people. The same people who make it harder for black people and minorities to vote. There is one single thread that is consistent through all of this, and that is racists not wanting to be called out on being racist.
floor2 5y ago
Everything you've said here is racist hate speech. I'm sure you wouldn't make statements like this about any other group. It's a good thing that we as a society don't treat all Muslims or Arabs as being responsible for the actions of jihadist terrorists. It's good that we as a society don't treat all <insert any label> as responsible for <bad thing some members of that group did>. In every single item you listed, there were white people both doing good and bad. Some white Southerners fought to support slavery and white Northerners fought to end it. Some white people in Alabama wanted segregation but they were stopped by a white president and white national guardsmen who represented the majority of white American opinion that wanted to outlaw and stop segregation. Stop treating hundreds of millions of people as one monolith. Stop the "us vs them" mentality. Please, stop spreading hate.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

by olliej 5y ago

scollet 5y ago

Sue, and from interpretations of other sub-sections, outright bar educational material on these grounds. ``` 103 (2) Members of the instructional staff of the public 104 schools, subject to the rules of the State Board of Education 105 and the district school board, shall teach efficiently and 106 faithfully, using the books and materials required that meet the 107 highest standards for professionalism and historical accuracy, 108 following the prescribed courses of study, and employing 109 approved methods of instruction``` ... ``` 485 (4) Each district school board is responsible for the 486 content of all materials used in a classroom or otherwise made 487 available to students. Each district school board shall adopt 488 rules, and each district school superintendent shall implement 489 procedures, that: 490 (b) Provide a process for public review of, public comment 491 on, and the adoption of instructional materials ```

lp0_on_fire 5y ago

You can teach all of those things without pushing collective guilt by association simply because a student shares the same skin pigment with someone who has been dead for decades or centuries. Johnny Fifth Grader did not enslave anyone. Johnny Fifth Grader did not "systematically exterminate" anyone. You neglect to mention the millions of white Americans that _supported_ the civil rights movement. Or the 500k or so of them that died in order to end the civil war and slavery. This is the kind of attitude that this bill is trying to combat. Despite what some may think, American history is far more nuanced than "white people bad".

olliej 5y ago
No. You cannot teach those things, without providing grounds for someone to sue you. You cannot teach the above topics, without talking about the races of the oppressor, and the oppressed, and if you talk about white people being the oppressors then little Johnny fifth grader's parents can sue, saying that they feel discomfort at the idea of little Johnny being taught that white people were the ones owning black people. That is the intent of the law, and pretending that it isn't is a clear indication of argument in bad faith.
- lp0_on_fire 5y ago
  This law does not prevent teaching that _individual_ white people or that _groups_ of white people were oppressors. It's aimed at those who are interested in painting the narrative that _all_ white people are/were oppressors. You are deliberately misreading it to push your politics-du-jour.
  - olliej 5y ago
    No one is pushing that perspective. America was founded with white people saying that black people were not human. The economy was built on slavery. White people wanting to own black people is why the American civil war happened. White people were the driving force behind Jim Crow laws, segregation, etc, etc You cannot teach any of that without being sued. No one has said “everyone” had slaves. No one has said “everyone supported him crow laws”. Here’s the biggest tell: the people making the most noise about CRT are the ones who like the confederate flag and statues of people who by definition committed treason, for the express purpose of owning black people. The same people who make it harder for black people and minorities to vote. There is one single thread that is consistent through all of this, and that is racists not wanting to be called out on being racist.

floor2 5y ago

Everything you've said here is racist hate speech. I'm sure you wouldn't make statements like this about any other group. It's a good thing that we as a society don't treat all Muslims or Arabs as being responsible for the actions of jihadist terrorists. It's good that we as a society don't treat all <insert any label> as responsible for <bad thing some members of that group did>. In every single item you listed, there were white people both doing good and bad. Some white Southerners fought to support slavery and white Northerners fought to end it. Some white people in Alabama wanted segregation but they were stopped by a white president and white national guardsmen who represented the majority of white American opinion that wanted to outlaw and stop segregation. Stop treating hundreds of millions of people as one monolith. Stop the "us vs them" mentality. Please, stop spreading hate.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]