5 ms·

Why VR Computers are better than PCs and Laptops

15 points by mischa_u 5y ago

japhib 5y ago
Here’s the thing though … VR headsets are terrible to wear for a long time. They make some valid points. I think it’d be cool to use one, IF the comfort issue is resolved.
- emmo 5y ago
  As an avid VR user.. I agree. I spend several hours at a time wearing a VR headset when sim racing, and am dripping with sweat by the end. They are way too hot and heavy for extended periods. Comfort needs to be solved for there to be any chance of them being used for general use.
  - georgewsinger 5y ago
    Yeah, good thermal design is a priority for us, since without it long compute sessions won't be comfortable. - Most of the components in the front of our headset are low-power. - Our detachable compute unit is in the back of the headset, with airflow going away from your head, so heat there shouldn't be too noticeable. (Contrast with the Quest, which, e.g. has everything in the front of the headset). - We are looking into active cooling for the front part of our headset regardless, in order to sustain long sessions and prevent facial sweat due to low circulation.
    - emmo 5y ago
      I am genuinely happy to hear that. I'm definitely considering jumping on the Kickstarter.
- whoomp12342 5y ago
  not to mention eye strain/doomhead.
  - georgewsinger 5y ago
    We're making our headset with extremely high pixel density[1] specifically to combat against eye strain. This is really important for office work, which involves reading lots of fine text and icons. We also have special rendering in place which is optimized specifically for text crispness. [1] Our PPD is 75% higher than the Oculus Quest, and ~3x higher than the Valve Index. See https://simulavr.com/blog/vr-comparison/ https://simulavr.com/blog/vr-comparison/
GekkePrutser 5y ago
> Our headset is equipped with a 35.5 PPD ("Pixels-Per-Degree") display & optics system, which is crucial for the clear display icons, text, and other small details. This is higher than any other portable VR headset currently on the market, and is equivalent to having a 40" 1440p display 2 feet away from you, everwhere you look. That's actually pretty low resolution IMO. I don't want to get any lower than 1080p at 24" at 2 feet from my face. At my current desktop I use 4K at 24" at 2 feet, however I use 200% scaling so it's effectively 1080p. I would try Simula though if I could get it to work on my Oculus Quest 2. Even with the even lower res, I'd like to explore the concept. But I wouldn't buy hardware just for the purpose. I hope someone will port the software to general Linux PCs and more headsets like the Quest 2:) The idea of floating windows instead of virtual screens is very appealing, I tried Immersed and this was not ideal indeed. After all the Simula window manager seems to be open source so technically it could work. And wireless would be much nicer.
- Serenacula 5y ago
  35.5ppd is SIGNIFICANTLY better than the Oculus quest 2, which IIRC is around 22ppd. I do agree with you though, it is a very desirable way to work. I tried to get Immerse working, but it was just such a buggy mess that I gave up. Hopefully Simula can do it better.
  - georgewsinger 5y ago
    What were the bugs you experienced with Immersed?
  - GekkePrutser 5y ago
    Yeah I know but one of the things with immersed that hindered productivity was the need to up the scaling too much. But it's also a very clunky user experience yes.
- georgewsinger 5y ago
  If you're not interested in buying our hardware now, perhaps we can earn your trust over time with weekly updates & our first iteration shipped. RE resolution issues: 35.5 PPD is the absolute bleeding edge pixel density for portable VR (in that there aren't any other portable VR headsets on the market right now with higher density than this). With that said, it's also still one doubling away from 60PPD, after which which the human eye stops telling the difference when you add more pixels. Up until this point, there are still many gains to be had. Some people have reported using hacks to get Simula working in a Quest 2. If you'd like to try out our window manager, we officially support the Valve Index, HTC Vive, and HTC Vive Pro. Unfortunately, these headsets offer very low PPD, and no other tethered headsets on the market currently support Linux (which is why in part we decided to build our own).
gorjusborg 5y ago
I laughed out loud at the section describing working outside. Like I'm going to wear a thousand dollar blindfold in public. Way too vulnerable.
- georgewsinger 5y ago
  Our headset supports an AR passthrough mode which allows you to see your surroundings. Still, we don't advise using it in a high-traffic area, or to put your safety at risk =] Sitting in a park, your back yard, or on urban balconies is more what we're thinking here.
- whoomp12342 5y ago
  dont worry, there are cameras on the outside to let you know when someone is coming near
tadbit 5y ago
> VRCs avoid cord tethering Not with the architecture (x86_64) they picked for the Simula One. Unless they're using an extremely heavy battery in the headset it will need to be plugged into an outlet or an external battery pack for continuous use. I saw the SimulaVR team was active in a previous HN discussion and I asked why they went with x86_64 [1], they really didn't have a good answer for it. I suspect it's either due to a limitation with their team's talent/skillset, which is a good enough reason for their first gen headset, or they don't want anyone taking SimulaOS and running it on Oculus hardware. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29926189 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29926189

15 points by mischa_u 5y ago

Here’s the thing though … VR headsets are terrible to wear for a long time. They make some valid points. I think it’d be cool to use one, IF the comfort issue is resolved.

emmo 5y ago
As an avid VR user.. I agree. I spend several hours at a time wearing a VR headset when sim racing, and am dripping with sweat by the end. They are way too hot and heavy for extended periods. Comfort needs to be solved for there to be any chance of them being used for general use.
- georgewsinger 5y ago
  Yeah, good thermal design is a priority for us, since without it long compute sessions won't be comfortable. - Most of the components in the front of our headset are low-power. - Our detachable compute unit is in the back of the headset, with airflow going away from your head, so heat there shouldn't be too noticeable. (Contrast with the Quest, which, e.g. has everything in the front of the headset). - We are looking into active cooling for the front part of our headset regardless, in order to sustain long sessions and prevent facial sweat due to low circulation.
  - emmo 5y ago
    I am genuinely happy to hear that. I'm definitely considering jumping on the Kickstarter.
whoomp12342 5y ago
not to mention eye strain/doomhead.
- georgewsinger 5y ago
  We're making our headset with extremely high pixel density[1] specifically to combat against eye strain. This is really important for office work, which involves reading lots of fine text and icons. We also have special rendering in place which is optimized specifically for text crispness. [1] Our PPD is 75% higher than the Oculus Quest, and ~3x higher than the Valve Index. See https://simulavr.com/blog/vr-comparison/ https://simulavr.com/blog/vr-comparison/

GekkePrutser 5y ago

> Our headset is equipped with a 35.5 PPD ("Pixels-Per-Degree") display & optics system, which is crucial for the clear display icons, text, and other small details. This is higher than any other portable VR headset currently on the market, and is equivalent to having a 40" 1440p display 2 feet away from you, everwhere you look. That's actually pretty low resolution IMO. I don't want to get any lower than 1080p at 24" at 2 feet from my face. At my current desktop I use 4K at 24" at 2 feet, however I use 200% scaling so it's effectively 1080p. I would try Simula though if I could get it to work on my Oculus Quest 2. Even with the even lower res, I'd like to explore the concept. But I wouldn't buy hardware just for the purpose. I hope someone will port the software to general Linux PCs and more headsets like the Quest 2:) The idea of floating windows instead of virtual screens is very appealing, I tried Immersed and this was not ideal indeed. After all the Simula window manager seems to be open source so technically it could work. And wireless would be much nicer.

Serenacula 5y ago
35.5ppd is SIGNIFICANTLY better than the Oculus quest 2, which IIRC is around 22ppd. I do agree with you though, it is a very desirable way to work. I tried to get Immerse working, but it was just such a buggy mess that I gave up. Hopefully Simula can do it better.
- georgewsinger 5y ago
  What were the bugs you experienced with Immersed?
- GekkePrutser 5y ago
  Yeah I know but one of the things with immersed that hindered productivity was the need to up the scaling too much. But it's also a very clunky user experience yes.
georgewsinger 5y ago
If you're not interested in buying our hardware now, perhaps we can earn your trust over time with weekly updates & our first iteration shipped. RE resolution issues: 35.5 PPD is the absolute bleeding edge pixel density for portable VR (in that there aren't any other portable VR headsets on the market right now with higher density than this). With that said, it's also still one doubling away from 60PPD, after which which the human eye stops telling the difference when you add more pixels. Up until this point, there are still many gains to be had. Some people have reported using hacks to get Simula working in a Quest 2. If you'd like to try out our window manager, we officially support the Valve Index, HTC Vive, and HTC Vive Pro. Unfortunately, these headsets offer very low PPD, and no other tethered headsets on the market currently support Linux (which is why in part we decided to build our own).

gorjusborg 5y ago

I laughed out loud at the section describing working outside. Like I'm going to wear a thousand dollar blindfold in public. Way too vulnerable.

georgewsinger 5y ago
Our headset supports an AR passthrough mode which allows you to see your surroundings. Still, we don't advise using it in a high-traffic area, or to put your safety at risk =] Sitting in a park, your back yard, or on urban balconies is more what we're thinking here.
whoomp12342 5y ago
dont worry, there are cameras on the outside to let you know when someone is coming near

tadbit 5y ago

> VRCs avoid cord tethering Not with the architecture (x86_64) they picked for the Simula One. Unless they're using an extremely heavy battery in the headset it will need to be plugged into an outlet or an external battery pack for continuous use. I saw the SimulaVR team was active in a previous HN discussion and I asked why they went with x86_64 [1], they really didn't have a good answer for it. I suspect it's either due to a limitation with their team's talent/skillset, which is a good enough reason for their first gen headset, or they don't want anyone taking SimulaOS and running it on Oculus hardware. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29926189 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29926189