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It is absolutely acceptable to knowingly exchange damage to body for healing to mind, and vice versa as well. But I still appreciate that science is gradually m

It is absolutely acceptable to knowingly exchange damage to body for healing to mind, and vice versa as well. But I still appreciate that science is gradually making clear that alcohol is not perfectly harmless, and that a large-scale health foundation is finally admitting that.

netizen-936824 5y ago
The mind is part of the body Also contrary to popular belief, alcohol does not heal or help the mind unless perhaps you have methanol poisoning or are in the middle of a panic attack
- robobro 5y ago
  > The mind is part of the body is it...?
  - netizen-936824 5y ago
    Yes, the mind is an emergent property of the networks of the brain.
    - tapas73 5y ago
      Or maybe you have a soul.
      - wombatmobile 5y ago
        The soul is an emergent property of the mind and body interacting with the world.
      - netizen-936824 5y ago
        Citation needed. Please don't invoke magic
  - brnt 5y ago
    How could it possibly not be?
  - lkfjasdlkjfsad 5y ago
    if the mind is a state of consciousness, and damage to the brain damages said consciousness, the mind must be part of the body. going further, alcohol is interesting in that, in appropriate amounts, it can improve the state of consciousness through a better quality of social interactions, and at the same time, can damage the state of consciousness through poisoning
  - munk-a 5y ago
    Absolutely, and not only in a strictly physical sense (i.e. it's contained within it). Mental acuity into old age is strengthened by continued exercise and fitness - damaging the body so that it is less able to physically operate damages the potential of the mind. Even if you want to step into the realm of the philosophy of mind[1] - there still are rather clear portions of the mind that are physically linked and a pretty wide consensus on the feedback of bodily strength to a healthy mind. Modern dualism accepts that a lot of mental functions are either enabled or assisted by our physical brain goop and classical dualism still assumed the definition of some crossover point where the metaphysical abstract expression of thought was translated into physical signals that triggered actions in the body - the existence of pain reactions necessitates a fair amount of our mental processing having the direct involvement of physical systems. 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophy_of_mind https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophy_of_mind
- cecilpl2 5y ago
  > alcohol does not heal or help the mind Is it not possible that some people find alcohol in reasonable doses to be a net positive mentally and mood-wise?
  - brnt 5y ago
    What people experience as positive does not need to be that. Using alcohol to not/postpone/avoid solving an underlying problem for unhappiness would be an example.
    - mlyle 5y ago
      It's been basically 2 years since I've had a drink. Before then, I drank socially-- a couple times per year I'd get buzzed with friends. Not all my social outings were buzzed. But those hazy memories of being buzzed withe friends are little treasures that bring me smiles even long removed from them. My life is richer, and my mental health better, by virtue of hanging out with people this way and I miss it (this is a casualty of COVID). Many memories of sober moments with friends bring joy, too. But they're qualitatively different things. I want both.
    - jjulius 5y ago
      Preface: I say this as someone who has been sober from alcohol for almost 5 years. Something can be a "net positive mentally and mood-wise" without also being something that is "not/[postponing]/[avoiding] solving an underlying problem for unhappiness".
  - AlbertCory 5y ago
    The sibling posts make the right point: lots of things are objectively bad for your body, but your emotions are part of it, too. If alcohol or whatever makes you happier, then it's "good for you." Until you have so much that it's not good for you anymore. It's the same for sweet desserts: why TF should you deprive yourself of all of them? Just keep it in moderation.
    - SomewhatLikely 5y ago
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- RHSeeger 5y ago
  Alcohol can be part of having a fun time, and having a fun time occasionally is good for your mental health (as opposed to the physical health of your brain, which appears to be what you're talking about).
  - munk-a 5y ago
    This is certainly an opinion, but I think there are plenty of alternatives out there that can do a better job at enabling fun having without causing nearly as much bodily damage or functional impairment. We have a variety of choices in both the natural and pharmaceutical realms.
- floatingatoll 5y ago
  Okay, fine. It’s acceptable to damage the body to heal the body. For example, exercise, where you damaging muscle fibers to heal, maintain, and/or improve the body. Also for example, intoxication, by virtually every vector known to exist, often damaging the body in order to maintain the body. Being alive is about tradeoffs, not about minmaxing. You can max out any statistic, but only at the cost of the others — sanity included. Alternately, being alive is about the exquisite joy of minmaxing, being able to hyper focus on one specific body goal at the cost of everything else in your life, including sanity (if you’re not careful). “I’m sane without intoxicants”: so no nature, no music, no games, no social joy, then. For example, this is either a description of an acid trip or of someone listening to orchestral music on the radio: “It was so amazing. I’ve never felt so alive. It was, like, there was a train running through the mountains, and my room was one of the train cars, and I could see it right there, and I just stared at the wall for like half an hour and enjoyed the ride.” I find it simpler to discuss mind and body in separate terms since people have trouble seeing transcendent experiences as intoxicants, but I hope this use of your terms helps clarify my viewpoint.
dataengineer56 5y ago
This is a dangerous statement! Alcohol is not good for the mind, even in small amounts. I feel like a cloud has been lifted since I stopped drinking. I strongly recommend everyone read Allen Carr's Stop Drinking Now (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Stop-Drinking-Now-Allen-Carrs/dp/184837982X https://www.amazon.co.uk/Stop-Drinking-Now-Allen-Carrs/dp/18...) - a fantastic book in which the author logically argues why every perceived positive of drinking is actually a negative.

netizen-936824 5y ago

The mind is part of the body Also contrary to popular belief, alcohol does not heal or help the mind unless perhaps you have methanol poisoning or are in the middle of a panic attack

robobro 5y ago
> The mind is part of the body is it...?
- netizen-936824 5y ago
  Yes, the mind is an emergent property of the networks of the brain.
  - tapas73 5y ago
    Or maybe you have a soul.
    - wombatmobile 5y ago
      The soul is an emergent property of the mind and body interacting with the world.
    - netizen-936824 5y ago
      Citation needed. Please don't invoke magic
- brnt 5y ago
  How could it possibly not be?
- lkfjasdlkjfsad 5y ago
  if the mind is a state of consciousness, and damage to the brain damages said consciousness, the mind must be part of the body. going further, alcohol is interesting in that, in appropriate amounts, it can improve the state of consciousness through a better quality of social interactions, and at the same time, can damage the state of consciousness through poisoning
- munk-a 5y ago
  Absolutely, and not only in a strictly physical sense (i.e. it's contained within it). Mental acuity into old age is strengthened by continued exercise and fitness - damaging the body so that it is less able to physically operate damages the potential of the mind. Even if you want to step into the realm of the philosophy of mind[1] - there still are rather clear portions of the mind that are physically linked and a pretty wide consensus on the feedback of bodily strength to a healthy mind. Modern dualism accepts that a lot of mental functions are either enabled or assisted by our physical brain goop and classical dualism still assumed the definition of some crossover point where the metaphysical abstract expression of thought was translated into physical signals that triggered actions in the body - the existence of pain reactions necessitates a fair amount of our mental processing having the direct involvement of physical systems. 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophy_of_mind https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophy_of_mind
cecilpl2 5y ago
> alcohol does not heal or help the mind Is it not possible that some people find alcohol in reasonable doses to be a net positive mentally and mood-wise?
- brnt 5y ago
  What people experience as positive does not need to be that. Using alcohol to not/postpone/avoid solving an underlying problem for unhappiness would be an example.
  - mlyle 5y ago
    It's been basically 2 years since I've had a drink. Before then, I drank socially-- a couple times per year I'd get buzzed with friends. Not all my social outings were buzzed. But those hazy memories of being buzzed withe friends are little treasures that bring me smiles even long removed from them. My life is richer, and my mental health better, by virtue of hanging out with people this way and I miss it (this is a casualty of COVID). Many memories of sober moments with friends bring joy, too. But they're qualitatively different things. I want both.
  - jjulius 5y ago
    Preface: I say this as someone who has been sober from alcohol for almost 5 years. Something can be a "net positive mentally and mood-wise" without also being something that is "not/[postponing]/[avoiding] solving an underlying problem for unhappiness".
- AlbertCory 5y ago
  The sibling posts make the right point: lots of things are objectively bad for your body, but your emotions are part of it, too. If alcohol or whatever makes you happier, then it's "good for you." Until you have so much that it's not good for you anymore. It's the same for sweet desserts: why TF should you deprive yourself of all of them? Just keep it in moderation.
  - SomewhatLikely 5y ago
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
RHSeeger 5y ago
Alcohol can be part of having a fun time, and having a fun time occasionally is good for your mental health (as opposed to the physical health of your brain, which appears to be what you're talking about).
- munk-a 5y ago
  This is certainly an opinion, but I think there are plenty of alternatives out there that can do a better job at enabling fun having without causing nearly as much bodily damage or functional impairment. We have a variety of choices in both the natural and pharmaceutical realms.
floatingatoll 5y ago
Okay, fine. It’s acceptable to damage the body to heal the body. For example, exercise, where you damaging muscle fibers to heal, maintain, and/or improve the body. Also for example, intoxication, by virtually every vector known to exist, often damaging the body in order to maintain the body. Being alive is about tradeoffs, not about minmaxing. You can max out any statistic, but only at the cost of the others — sanity included. Alternately, being alive is about the exquisite joy of minmaxing, being able to hyper focus on one specific body goal at the cost of everything else in your life, including sanity (if you’re not careful). “I’m sane without intoxicants”: so no nature, no music, no games, no social joy, then. For example, this is either a description of an acid trip or of someone listening to orchestral music on the radio: “It was so amazing. I’ve never felt so alive. It was, like, there was a train running through the mountains, and my room was one of the train cars, and I could see it right there, and I just stared at the wall for like half an hour and enjoyed the ride.” I find it simpler to discuss mind and body in separate terms since people have trouble seeing transcendent experiences as intoxicants, but I hope this use of your terms helps clarify my viewpoint.

dataengineer56 5y ago

This is a dangerous statement! Alcohol is not good for the mind, even in small amounts. I feel like a cloud has been lifted since I stopped drinking. I strongly recommend everyone read Allen Carr's Stop Drinking Now (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Stop-Drinking-Now-Allen-Carrs/dp/184837982X https://www.amazon.co.uk/Stop-Drinking-Now-Allen-Carrs/dp/18...) - a fantastic book in which the author logically argues why every perceived positive of drinking is actually a negative.