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There's also the Ford vs Chicken Tax; basically U.S. import tariff for passenger van is 2.5% and cargo van is 25%, so Ford, which manufactured their Transit van

There's also the Ford vs Chicken Tax; basically U.S. import tariff for passenger van is 2.5% and cargo van is 25%, so Ford, which manufactured their Transit van in Turkey, installed seats in factory and stripped the seats once they arrived in the U.S. Now looks like they are in trouble for this scheme. https://jalopnik.com/ford-faces-potential-1-3-billion-fine-for-skirting-chi-1847028810 https://jalopnik.com/ford-faces-potential-1-3-billion-fine-f... (And why it's called Chicken Tax is another fascinating story...)

Pasorrijer 5y ago
Yeah I remember reading that the Ford employees on the US side got the removal time down to 12 minutes a van.
- gumby 5y ago
  Given the cost of labor it was probably worth doing some design engineering to make the removal as easy as possible
db65edfc7996 5y ago
Planet Money did[0] a story about the Chicken Tax. [0] https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2017/01/25/511663527/episode-632-the-chicken-tax https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2017/01/25/511663527/epis...
notch656a 5y ago
I'm guessing they're only trouble because they took the seats out. Probably cheaper just to leave them in, and sell along with wrench to remove them 'in case it's needed for repair.' A friendly source will publish in a trade magazine it's the same van after 12 minutes to remove the seats, and the scheme will continue.
- fredoralive 5y ago
  According to an article about it[1], Ford also removed / panelled in various windows as well, so conversion probably isn't as trivially DIYable as just removing some token seats. Although I suppose van buyers are slightly more likely to know someone with a welding torch and some steel sheets than the average person, so perhaps they missed a trick... [1]https://www.wsj.com/amp/articles/SB125357990638429655 https://www.wsj.com/amp/articles/SB125357990638429655
jrockway 5y ago
Wow. I hope the government loses their lawsuit here. Customs & Border Protection should have absolutely no jurisdiction over what an item is used for once it enters the country.
- RC_ITR 5y ago
  It also goes to show how corrupt the import tax system is. Why SHOULD a cargo van have higher import taxes than a passenger van, other than to serve the needs of some random private company? Even moreso, I wouldn’t be surprised if Ford lobbied FOR those laws before changing its mind in where to produce a particular sku
  - nickff 5y ago
    >"Why SHOULD a cargo van have higher import taxes than a passenger van, other than to serve the needs of some random private company?" Have you read a tariff schedule? They're full of this stuff, which seem to be protections or favors for specific industries. Anti-dumping protections seem similar.
    - RC_ITR 5y ago
      >It also goes to show how corrupt the import tax system is.
      - nickff 5y ago
        I am not sure it is 'corrupt', though that may be a question of semantics. I didn't mean to disagree with you, just point out how rampant the issue was.
        secabeen 5y ago
        I don't think it's corrupt exactly, often these details are worked out in deals between the various countries or as retaliation for other unilateral increases. We lower your rate on rice to 6% if you lower our rate on chicken; if you raise your rate on our machine parts to 25%, we'll raise our rate on your cargo vans to 25%. Etc. It's part of the negotiations, and it often has nothing to do with the specifics of the items being tarriffed.
Hokusai 5y ago
> Now looks like they are in trouble for this scheme. All these cheats will never be accepted for working individuals. Corporations get a different flavor of justice. Even then they push it to the limits and dinner times find a burocrat in the pertinent agency willing to push forward a rightful punishment.
- ethbr0 5y ago
  SMB and sole proprietorships get away with ridiculous tax things constantly! The only difference is they usually don't try to take it to the Supreme Court when the IRS audits them.
PaulDavisThe1st 5y ago
Perhaps a more relevant and legally robust example is the Mercedes Benz Sprinter, which is manufactured in Germany, but US-bound vehicles have various parts removed before shipping. A facility in NC reassembles the vehicles (the removed parts are shipped with the van) once they arrive, which reduces or eliminates the tax.
- notmercedespr 5y ago
  Bit off, this was done near Charleston, SC as recently as a few years ago but has since transitioned to full manufacturing.
  - PaulDavisThe1st 5y ago
    How right you are!
bentcorner 5y ago
There's also the infamous Toy Biz, Inc. v. United States case where Marvel Comics argued that their X-Men toys where "nonhuman toys" and not dolls to avoid an import tax. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toy_Biz%2C_Inc._v._United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toy_Biz%2C_Inc._v._United_Stat... The irony is that in the X-Men universe, the X-Men fight for a unification of mutants and humans.
- autoexec 5y ago
  Still, technically true though I'd think. Mutants aren't human. The X-Gene makes them "Homo sapiens superior" and distinguishes them from humans who were mutated by other means (radiation, spider bites, etc). Do X-men want to erase the distinction or do they just want peaceful coexistence between the two species?
  - cgriswald 5y ago
    As species boundaries go, human/mutant is incredibly arbitrary. Either a mutant or a human can be created from a pairing of human-human, mutant-human, or mutant-mutant. It would be like classifying blonde people as a different species.
  - quietbritishjim 5y ago
    I'm not saying this would affect a court ruling, but as a point of curiosity: technically "human" means the homo genus, not just the sapiens species. So Neanderthals for example, or homo erectus, are both human. The X-men would be human too, if they were indeed homo sapiens superior.
  - gumby 5y ago
    > or do they just want peaceful coexistence between the two species? Are they truly speciated or can they interbreed producing fertile offspring? "Man of Steel, Woman of Kleenex" doesn't really address this as Superman is not a member of genus homo.
    - autoexec 5y ago

Pasorrijer 5y ago

Yeah I remember reading that the Ford employees on the US side got the removal time down to 12 minutes a van.

gumby 5y ago
Given the cost of labor it was probably worth doing some design engineering to make the removal as easy as possible

db65edfc7996 5y ago

Planet Money did[0] a story about the Chicken Tax. [0] https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2017/01/25/511663527/episode-632-the-chicken-tax https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2017/01/25/511663527/epis...

notch656a 5y ago

I'm guessing they're only trouble because they took the seats out. Probably cheaper just to leave them in, and sell along with wrench to remove them 'in case it's needed for repair.' A friendly source will publish in a trade magazine it's the same van after 12 minutes to remove the seats, and the scheme will continue.

fredoralive 5y ago
According to an article about it[1], Ford also removed / panelled in various windows as well, so conversion probably isn't as trivially DIYable as just removing some token seats. Although I suppose van buyers are slightly more likely to know someone with a welding torch and some steel sheets than the average person, so perhaps they missed a trick... [1]https://www.wsj.com/amp/articles/SB125357990638429655 https://www.wsj.com/amp/articles/SB125357990638429655

jrockway 5y ago

Wow. I hope the government loses their lawsuit here. Customs & Border Protection should have absolutely no jurisdiction over what an item is used for once it enters the country.

RC_ITR 5y ago
It also goes to show how corrupt the import tax system is. Why SHOULD a cargo van have higher import taxes than a passenger van, other than to serve the needs of some random private company? Even moreso, I wouldn’t be surprised if Ford lobbied FOR those laws before changing its mind in where to produce a particular sku
- nickff 5y ago
  >"Why SHOULD a cargo van have higher import taxes than a passenger van, other than to serve the needs of some random private company?" Have you read a tariff schedule? They're full of this stuff, which seem to be protections or favors for specific industries. Anti-dumping protections seem similar.
  - RC_ITR 5y ago
    >It also goes to show how corrupt the import tax system is.
    - nickff 5y ago
      I am not sure it is 'corrupt', though that may be a question of semantics. I didn't mean to disagree with you, just point out how rampant the issue was.
      - secabeen 5y ago
        I don't think it's corrupt exactly, often these details are worked out in deals between the various countries or as retaliation for other unilateral increases. We lower your rate on rice to 6% if you lower our rate on chicken; if you raise your rate on our machine parts to 25%, we'll raise our rate on your cargo vans to 25%. Etc. It's part of the negotiations, and it often has nothing to do with the specifics of the items being tarriffed.

Hokusai 5y ago

> Now looks like they are in trouble for this scheme. All these cheats will never be accepted for working individuals. Corporations get a different flavor of justice. Even then they push it to the limits and dinner times find a burocrat in the pertinent agency willing to push forward a rightful punishment.

ethbr0 5y ago
SMB and sole proprietorships get away with ridiculous tax things constantly! The only difference is they usually don't try to take it to the Supreme Court when the IRS audits them.

PaulDavisThe1st 5y ago

Perhaps a more relevant and legally robust example is the Mercedes Benz Sprinter, which is manufactured in Germany, but US-bound vehicles have various parts removed before shipping. A facility in NC reassembles the vehicles (the removed parts are shipped with the van) once they arrive, which reduces or eliminates the tax.

notmercedespr 5y ago
Bit off, this was done near Charleston, SC as recently as a few years ago but has since transitioned to full manufacturing.
- PaulDavisThe1st 5y ago
  How right you are!

bentcorner 5y ago

There's also the infamous Toy Biz, Inc. v. United States case where Marvel Comics argued that their X-Men toys where "nonhuman toys" and not dolls to avoid an import tax. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toy_Biz%2C_Inc._v._United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toy_Biz%2C_Inc._v._United_Stat... The irony is that in the X-Men universe, the X-Men fight for a unification of mutants and humans.

autoexec 5y ago
Still, technically true though I'd think. Mutants aren't human. The X-Gene makes them "Homo sapiens superior" and distinguishes them from humans who were mutated by other means (radiation, spider bites, etc). Do X-men want to erase the distinction or do they just want peaceful coexistence between the two species?
- cgriswald 5y ago
  As species boundaries go, human/mutant is incredibly arbitrary. Either a mutant or a human can be created from a pairing of human-human, mutant-human, or mutant-mutant. It would be like classifying blonde people as a different species.
- quietbritishjim 5y ago
  I'm not saying this would affect a court ruling, but as a point of curiosity: technically "human" means the homo genus, not just the sapiens species. So Neanderthals for example, or homo erectus, are both human. The X-men would be human too, if they were indeed homo sapiens superior.
- gumby 5y ago
  > or do they just want peaceful coexistence between the two species? Are they truly speciated or can they interbreed producing fertile offspring? "Man of Steel, Woman of Kleenex" doesn't really address this as Superman is not a member of genus homo.
  - autoexec 5y ago