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The next step is that you buy the device, but you don’t get a driver. You can conveniently use it from the manufacturers website. I’ll leave it to others to sp

The next step is that you buy the device, but you don’t get a driver. You can conveniently use it from the manufacturers website. I’ll leave it to others to speculate on what happens to the website in 2 years.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
Palomides 5y ago
plenty of USB devices need proprietary configuration software (like any fancy mouse/keyboard), razer has a whole pile of online crap already if you want something else to complain about, this depends on chrome-only USB support
- dstaley 5y ago
  This is also available in Microsoft Edge. Still, would be awesome to see support in Firefox and Safari!
  - RReverser 5y ago
    To be fair, Edge is also Chromium-based (I guess that's what the previous author meant, rather than specifically Chrome-only). But yeah, I'm also hoping for WebUSB to make its way to other browsers, but for now I'll take any improvement to building & distributing apps across many operating systems at once :)
  - dmitriid 5y ago
    > Still, would be awesome to see support in Firefox and Safari! Both Safari and Firefox consider WebUSB harmful, and will not implement. Their reasons have been voiced loud and clear to the Chrome team (as they were voiced regarding many other standards). Chrome, however, is the dominant browser and engine, so they dont' care. At all. It's now a "standard", and you will never other browser implementers' positions on web.dev (which is now a full-on unashamed Chrome propaganda vehicle).
- lp0_on_fire 5y ago
  > plenty of USB devices need proprietary configuration software (like any fancy mouse/keyboard), razer has a whole pile of online crap already Which is the primary reason I will never purchase another Razer product.
- tinus_hn 5y ago
  My example would be some 3D printer which you can only use from the website, and then after a few years you suddenly need a subscription to use your device. And a few years further support runs out and you can’t use it at all anymore. Because you can’t force a company to keep a website up and running. But you can keep a driver on an offline computer.
  - RReverser 5y ago
    You can likely visit the old version of the website via Internet Archive or save an offline snapshot yourself if you want, so it would be no different to driver on an offline computer.
    - peterangular 5y ago
      Have to disagree here. Anything remotely complex with JS usually doesn't work as-expected after archived on Internet Archive. Keep in mind we're not talking about a LAMP-driven WordPress blog with some jQuery sprinkled in - we're talking about an actual piece of software running in the browser ie: device driver. In good faith I would not expect something which uses experimental browser APIs to maintain functionality when archived by Internet Archive's automated crawling solutions. Same applies to offline saving.
    - RReverser 5y ago
      Good point regarding the offline capabilities, I'm not sure how well the Internet Archive will handle Wasm, but for the rest - WebUSB was already stabilized and isn't considered experimental (although I admit that didn't stop some other non-cross-browser APIs from being removed in the past).
    - petee 5y ago
      Archive is a little flaky on this front, but the other issue i see is when the company decides Archive is illegally hosting and files a DMCA or other lawsuit
  - jandrese 5y ago
    It won't be cached on the Internet Archive because the site is hidden behind a signup link and DRMed to your printer. The company will go after third party developers with legal threats like all closed hardware companies.
- cluoma 5y ago
  Given that the 'pile of online crap' has been around for a while now and seemingly not going anywhere, having access to this in the browser, and on any OS, sounds pretty convenient.
- monocasa 5y ago
  The difference is that webusb requires the specific website allowed to interact with the USB device to be listed in a USB descriptor. What that means is that you can't replace the functionality with the same UX. So for instance Arduino can make a generally available web arduino IDE, but I can't replace that if it goes down.
  - devanl 5y ago
    The initial WebUSB proposal included the notion of "allowed origins", but it was eventually removed in favor of user freedom. The device can provide a landing page URL for the browser to show when the device is plugged in, but otherwise any site meeting the secure origin requirements and that has user permission can access a USB device, same as any other website.
    - monocasa 5y ago
      Oh, that's great to hear. I might take another look at it then.
- matheusmoreira 5y ago
  Proprietary manufacturer software is so bad. It's hard to describe how aggravating it is. At least Razer is popular enough so people have already reverse engineered the drivers and implemented open source versions. I had to do it myself on my laptop and it was certainly an interesting experience. I learned that the manufacturer's driver was intercepting every single keystroke just to send a "light up this key's LEDs" command to the keyboard every single time. Why couldn't they do it on the hardware? It boggles my mind to this day.
tehbeard 5y ago
The OSS community has an easier time supporting it than when there's only a crappy windows binary blob?
- mschuster91 5y ago
  A crappy WebASM blob or heavily obfuscated JS blob is similar to a crappy windows binary blob, though.
  - kitsunesoba 5y ago
    Probably worse, because at least there’s well established tooling for reverse engineering Windows binary drivers, allowing for someone to eventually write FOSS drivers.
    - RReverser 5y ago
      I don't think it's worse because: 1) Wasm was designed to be easily decompilable / convertible to a text assembly representation by design, whereas for other platforms it requires fairly sophisticated disassemblers 2) Wasm can interact with the outside world (any I/O) only via explicitly defined import points, which are easy to intercept and/or replicate even if you don't know what's inside the binary itself.
ThePadawan 5y ago
I get what your opinion on the subject is but your example is hilarious to me since literally every time I have to download a device driver, it's on a manufacturer's website that looks (and performs) like it's been in continuous operation since 1986.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

Palomides 5y ago

plenty of USB devices need proprietary configuration software (like any fancy mouse/keyboard), razer has a whole pile of online crap already if you want something else to complain about, this depends on chrome-only USB support

dstaley 5y ago
This is also available in Microsoft Edge. Still, would be awesome to see support in Firefox and Safari!
- RReverser 5y ago
  To be fair, Edge is also Chromium-based (I guess that's what the previous author meant, rather than specifically Chrome-only). But yeah, I'm also hoping for WebUSB to make its way to other browsers, but for now I'll take any improvement to building & distributing apps across many operating systems at once :)
- dmitriid 5y ago
  > Still, would be awesome to see support in Firefox and Safari! Both Safari and Firefox consider WebUSB harmful, and will not implement. Their reasons have been voiced loud and clear to the Chrome team (as they were voiced regarding many other standards). Chrome, however, is the dominant browser and engine, so they dont' care. At all. It's now a "standard", and you will never other browser implementers' positions on web.dev (which is now a full-on unashamed Chrome propaganda vehicle).
lp0_on_fire 5y ago
> plenty of USB devices need proprietary configuration software (like any fancy mouse/keyboard), razer has a whole pile of online crap already Which is the primary reason I will never purchase another Razer product.
tinus_hn 5y ago
My example would be some 3D printer which you can only use from the website, and then after a few years you suddenly need a subscription to use your device. And a few years further support runs out and you can’t use it at all anymore. Because you can’t force a company to keep a website up and running. But you can keep a driver on an offline computer.
- RReverser 5y ago
  You can likely visit the old version of the website via Internet Archive or save an offline snapshot yourself if you want, so it would be no different to driver on an offline computer.
  - peterangular 5y ago
    Have to disagree here. Anything remotely complex with JS usually doesn't work as-expected after archived on Internet Archive. Keep in mind we're not talking about a LAMP-driven WordPress blog with some jQuery sprinkled in - we're talking about an actual piece of software running in the browser ie: device driver. In good faith I would not expect something which uses experimental browser APIs to maintain functionality when archived by Internet Archive's automated crawling solutions. Same applies to offline saving.
  - RReverser 5y ago
    Good point regarding the offline capabilities, I'm not sure how well the Internet Archive will handle Wasm, but for the rest - WebUSB was already stabilized and isn't considered experimental (although I admit that didn't stop some other non-cross-browser APIs from being removed in the past).
  - petee 5y ago
    Archive is a little flaky on this front, but the other issue i see is when the company decides Archive is illegally hosting and files a DMCA or other lawsuit
- jandrese 5y ago
  It won't be cached on the Internet Archive because the site is hidden behind a signup link and DRMed to your printer. The company will go after third party developers with legal threats like all closed hardware companies.
cluoma 5y ago
Given that the 'pile of online crap' has been around for a while now and seemingly not going anywhere, having access to this in the browser, and on any OS, sounds pretty convenient.
monocasa 5y ago
The difference is that webusb requires the specific website allowed to interact with the USB device to be listed in a USB descriptor. What that means is that you can't replace the functionality with the same UX. So for instance Arduino can make a generally available web arduino IDE, but I can't replace that if it goes down.
- devanl 5y ago
  The initial WebUSB proposal included the notion of "allowed origins", but it was eventually removed in favor of user freedom. The device can provide a landing page URL for the browser to show when the device is plugged in, but otherwise any site meeting the secure origin requirements and that has user permission can access a USB device, same as any other website.
  - monocasa 5y ago
    Oh, that's great to hear. I might take another look at it then.
matheusmoreira 5y ago
Proprietary manufacturer software is so bad. It's hard to describe how aggravating it is. At least Razer is popular enough so people have already reverse engineered the drivers and implemented open source versions. I had to do it myself on my laptop and it was certainly an interesting experience. I learned that the manufacturer's driver was intercepting every single keystroke just to send a "light up this key's LEDs" command to the keyboard every single time. Why couldn't they do it on the hardware? It boggles my mind to this day.

tehbeard 5y ago

The OSS community has an easier time supporting it than when there's only a crappy windows binary blob?

mschuster91 5y ago
A crappy WebASM blob or heavily obfuscated JS blob is similar to a crappy windows binary blob, though.
- kitsunesoba 5y ago
  Probably worse, because at least there’s well established tooling for reverse engineering Windows binary drivers, allowing for someone to eventually write FOSS drivers.
  - RReverser 5y ago
    I don't think it's worse because: 1) Wasm was designed to be easily decompilable / convertible to a text assembly representation by design, whereas for other platforms it requires fairly sophisticated disassemblers 2) Wasm can interact with the outside world (any I/O) only via explicitly defined import points, which are easy to intercept and/or replicate even if you don't know what's inside the binary itself.

ThePadawan 5y ago

I get what your opinion on the subject is but your example is hilarious to me since literally every time I have to download a device driver, it's on a manufacturer's website that looks (and performs) like it's been in continuous operation since 1986.