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I don't know who's telling the truth: https://news.yahoo.com/5-152-power-bill-texas-192316981.html https://news.yahoo.com/5-152-power-bill-texas-192316981.html

by jrs235 5y ago

I don't know who's telling the truth: https://news.yahoo.com/5-152-power-bill-texas-192316981.html https://news.yahoo.com/5-152-power-bill-texas-192316981.html Edit: Perhaps in the end consumers didn't have to pay. I haven't found anything saying they didn't.

tristor 5y ago
The very article you link is talking about exactly one small provider that has an entire business focused on consumers signing up to pay wholesale rates live (which are generally much lower than the contract rates) called Griddy. Griddy customers are the ONLY individuals in the entire state who had their power bill go up last February during the storm. According to Griddy they had around 29000 customers in Texas last year and there are roughly 29 Million people in Texas, so that means less than 1/10th of 1% (0.001) of the Texas population had to pay an increased power bill last February. There are different systems in different municipalities. Houston and Dallas both have systems where multiple providers can offer service which are distinct from the providers responsible for the actual utility infrastructure (power lines to your house). Austin and San Antonio both have municipally owned utilities (CPS Energy in San Antonio, Austin Energy in Austin). For the majority of households they either have a contracted rate based on their agreement when they signed up for service (just like a cell phone contract), or they have a legally set rate which requires a ballot issue. This is WELL established. There's no dispute here, and if you can't "tell who's telling the truth", it just means you haven't bothered doing any research before deciding. The national media used the snowstorm in February as a political tool to kick Texas while it was down because they see it as a Republican bastion (even though the majority of the population lives in reliably blue cities in national elections and Texas is purple now), and used something truthful for less than 1/10th of 1% of the population to act like it was that way for everyone to make the issue seem larger than it was. Also from your article "Despite the astronomical prices, Scott-Amos is considered one of the lucky ones, as millions of people across Texas are still without power while temperatures remain perilously low." Griddy customers pay the live wholesale price, they were also immune from forced load-shedding meaning they didn't go without power during freezing weather like most other Texans did, so true to their contract they paid the live wholesale price and in return received guaranteed service. Sounds like they got exactly what they signed up for at the risk they decided to take which 99.999% of Texans opted not to take for the safer (but generally more expensive) financial bet.
- jrs235 5y ago
  Thank you and thank you for the information/numbers. In regards to "The national media used the snowstorm in February as a political tool to kick Texas while it was down because they see it as a Republican bastion" I agree. However, it didn't help that this problem was spun around by the opposite side and used to blame solar and wind energy sources as the reason for the problem. From what I gather(ed) the root problem was the lack of winterization to [all] energy infrastructure. But perhaps I'm misinformed on this too. Do you have additional insight? Thanks.
  - tristor 5y ago
    > From what I gather(ed) the root problem was the lack of winterization to [all] energy infrastructure. This is mostly the case. The primary issue wasn't that generation infrastructure wasn't weatherized, it's that wind turbines were not properly weatherized and failed, and the NG peaker infrastructure /was/ weatherized and took over, but was having issues meeting demands because the NG well infrastructure was not weatherized, meaning the peaker plants couldn't draw enough gas to meet demands. Another major confounding factor during the snowstorm was that grid didn't have enough high voltage pathways to support the amount of power that had to be shifted between generation locations and the generation locations were too spread out regionally (Texas is a large and mostly empty state) to maintain grid stability, so there was forced load shedding to prevent phase shifting out of spec or grid islanding. Also, while we're at it, it's bullshit when people say that "Republicans deregulated power in Texas, which is why it has an independent grid." Texas has ALWAYS had an independent grid. When the national grid started forming in response to New Deal legislation in 1935 states could avoid being affected by federal regulations by not transmitting power across state lines, so Texas chose to not connect its existing grid to the national grid as it was forming. Originally Texas had two independent grids, but they joined during that time, choosing to remain disconnected from the national grid but sharing with each other. ERCOT was actually formed to begin internal regulations of power in Texas in response to a huge national power disaster in 1965 that didn't affect Texas, but made the state realize it needed /some/ regulation. I don't make any judgements as to whether this situation is better or worse, and it was certainly politically motivated, but it's not new and it's not recent, so most of the things written about it are simply untrue.

by jrs235 5y ago

tristor 5y ago

The very article you link is talking about exactly one small provider that has an entire business focused on consumers signing up to pay wholesale rates live (which are generally much lower than the contract rates) called Griddy. Griddy customers are the ONLY individuals in the entire state who had their power bill go up last February during the storm. According to Griddy they had around 29000 customers in Texas last year and there are roughly 29 Million people in Texas, so that means less than 1/10th of 1% (0.001) of the Texas population had to pay an increased power bill last February. There are different systems in different municipalities. Houston and Dallas both have systems where multiple providers can offer service which are distinct from the providers responsible for the actual utility infrastructure (power lines to your house). Austin and San Antonio both have municipally owned utilities (CPS Energy in San Antonio, Austin Energy in Austin). For the majority of households they either have a contracted rate based on their agreement when they signed up for service (just like a cell phone contract), or they have a legally set rate which requires a ballot issue. This is WELL established. There's no dispute here, and if you can't "tell who's telling the truth", it just means you haven't bothered doing any research before deciding. The national media used the snowstorm in February as a political tool to kick Texas while it was down because they see it as a Republican bastion (even though the majority of the population lives in reliably blue cities in national elections and Texas is purple now), and used something truthful for less than 1/10th of 1% of the population to act like it was that way for everyone to make the issue seem larger than it was. Also from your article "Despite the astronomical prices, Scott-Amos is considered one of the lucky ones, as millions of people across Texas are still without power while temperatures remain perilously low." Griddy customers pay the live wholesale price, they were also immune from forced load-shedding meaning they didn't go without power during freezing weather like most other Texans did, so true to their contract they paid the live wholesale price and in return received guaranteed service. Sounds like they got exactly what they signed up for at the risk they decided to take which 99.999% of Texans opted not to take for the safer (but generally more expensive) financial bet.

jrs235 5y ago
Thank you and thank you for the information/numbers. In regards to "The national media used the snowstorm in February as a political tool to kick Texas while it was down because they see it as a Republican bastion" I agree. However, it didn't help that this problem was spun around by the opposite side and used to blame solar and wind energy sources as the reason for the problem. From what I gather(ed) the root problem was the lack of winterization to [all] energy infrastructure. But perhaps I'm misinformed on this too. Do you have additional insight? Thanks.
- tristor 5y ago
  > From what I gather(ed) the root problem was the lack of winterization to [all] energy infrastructure. This is mostly the case. The primary issue wasn't that generation infrastructure wasn't weatherized, it's that wind turbines were not properly weatherized and failed, and the NG peaker infrastructure /was/ weatherized and took over, but was having issues meeting demands because the NG well infrastructure was not weatherized, meaning the peaker plants couldn't draw enough gas to meet demands. Another major confounding factor during the snowstorm was that grid didn't have enough high voltage pathways to support the amount of power that had to be shifted between generation locations and the generation locations were too spread out regionally (Texas is a large and mostly empty state) to maintain grid stability, so there was forced load shedding to prevent phase shifting out of spec or grid islanding. Also, while we're at it, it's bullshit when people say that "Republicans deregulated power in Texas, which is why it has an independent grid." Texas has ALWAYS had an independent grid. When the national grid started forming in response to New Deal legislation in 1935 states could avoid being affected by federal regulations by not transmitting power across state lines, so Texas chose to not connect its existing grid to the national grid as it was forming. Originally Texas had two independent grids, but they joined during that time, choosing to remain disconnected from the national grid but sharing with each other. ERCOT was actually formed to begin internal regulations of power in Texas in response to a huge national power disaster in 1965 that didn't affect Texas, but made the state realize it needed /some/ regulation. I don't make any judgements as to whether this situation is better or worse, and it was certainly politically motivated, but it's not new and it's not recent, so most of the things written about it are simply untrue.