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> I can just run a bucket of water then shut off the main to make sure the pipes don't burst. FYI for warm-weather dwellers: that is not adequate preparation t

> I can just run a bucket of water then shut off the main to make sure the pipes don't burst. FYI for warm-weather dwellers: that is not adequate preparation to prevent pipes from freezing and bursting! Required prep depends on insulation and interior temperature, but in the extreme you want to drain the supply pipes and put antifreeze in the drain traps (which can also burst, though less catastrophically than supply lines!). An alternative that works in medium-cold temperatures is to leave all terminal taps dripping slowly.

sidewndr46 5y ago
It doesn't matter if the pipes burst when there is no water pressure. The repair cost in that case is like $10. The only time a burst pipe is a real problem is when the water is on and it runs 10000 gallons of water into your home.
- quesera 5y ago
  It's a matter of degrees (!). A burst pipe will leak water when the pressure is restored. This can leak inside a wall cavity causing a great deal of damage in a short amount of time, including follow-on problems like mold and rot if not fully dried. A frozen/burst pipe (even with pressure) will rarely leak while still frozen. The leak begins when it thaws, and yes that can be catastrophic if everyone is asleep (rare, due to nighttime temperature) or if no one is home to notice. If the pressure is OFF when the burst pipe thaws, unless the system is drained in advance, you'll still have many gallons of water in the system that could leak, depending on location of burst. Again if you are not aware when the leak begins, you can drain a large quantity/most of the system contents. Even a few minutes of leaking can require replacement of a lot of drywall, wallpaper, etc.
  - sidewndr46 5y ago
    > A burst pipe will leak water when the pressure is restored. Why on earth would I turn my water back on after a freeze without also checking for leaks?
    - quesera 5y ago
      It is not possible to check all possible locations for a leak. And in many locations, a leak will not be detectable until pressure is restored. An inrush of water at the main cutoff is ambiguous if there are any depleted tanks to refill. This may be non-intuitive if you haven't lived through it.
      - sidewndr46 5y ago
        None of what you are saying makes any sense. My water meter reads down to tenths of a gallon. That is a tiny amount of water. If I open the valve and it starts spinning like a clock, I've got a leak. Do you think I'd just walk away and think "Oh well, I guess it just takes 500 gallons to fill the toilet!". I'd have to be blindfolded to not notice this.
        quesera 5y ago
        Nope, if it starts spinning it means you have a tank to fill (toilets, water heater, etc), or a system to pressurize (hundreds of feet of pipe). In the minutes required to do this, you could be leaking gallons into a wall. Why do you think a burst pipe will flow at or above the rate of a single toilet fill? Sometimes it might, but some frozen pipe bursts create very small breaches in the pipe wall. A tiny, steady stream inside a wall will barely if at all register on the spinner, and might not be audible at the valve. But it could cause a lot of damage.
        sidewndr46 5y ago
        Hundreds of feet of pipe? Where do you think I live, some estate where I have 100 acres to myself?
        quesera 5y ago
        Obviously it varies. But having plumbed entire houses, I can tell you that it adds up. Supply line in the basement, a run to the water heater(s), then forking into two parallel lines (hot and cold) to supply kitchen(s) and bathroom(s), verticals to get to higher floors, sometimes horizontal runs if the bathrooms are not stacked, etc. Cold supply to the outdoor spigots. Even small single-story houses with perfectly located utilities will have several dozen feet of potable water lines. Add stories or less-convenient utility locations and you can be well into the hundreds.
hnu0847 5y ago
Can you please elaborate on this? Why wouldn't shutting off the water supply to my house and then completely draining the pipes by running the lowest faucet in the house be the safest way to protect against burst pipes? Or am I misunderstanding your recommendation?
- quesera 5y ago
  That is the proper way, sorry if I wasn't clear. But also, there are often low points in the piping that are not drained by the lowest faucet. And people frequently forget traps, tanks, and toilets.

sidewndr46 5y ago

It doesn't matter if the pipes burst when there is no water pressure. The repair cost in that case is like $10. The only time a burst pipe is a real problem is when the water is on and it runs 10000 gallons of water into your home.

quesera 5y ago
It's a matter of degrees (!). A burst pipe will leak water when the pressure is restored. This can leak inside a wall cavity causing a great deal of damage in a short amount of time, including follow-on problems like mold and rot if not fully dried. A frozen/burst pipe (even with pressure) will rarely leak while still frozen. The leak begins when it thaws, and yes that can be catastrophic if everyone is asleep (rare, due to nighttime temperature) or if no one is home to notice. If the pressure is OFF when the burst pipe thaws, unless the system is drained in advance, you'll still have many gallons of water in the system that could leak, depending on location of burst. Again if you are not aware when the leak begins, you can drain a large quantity/most of the system contents. Even a few minutes of leaking can require replacement of a lot of drywall, wallpaper, etc.
- sidewndr46 5y ago
  > A burst pipe will leak water when the pressure is restored. Why on earth would I turn my water back on after a freeze without also checking for leaks?
  - quesera 5y ago
    It is not possible to check all possible locations for a leak. And in many locations, a leak will not be detectable until pressure is restored. An inrush of water at the main cutoff is ambiguous if there are any depleted tanks to refill. This may be non-intuitive if you haven't lived through it.
    - sidewndr46 5y ago
      None of what you are saying makes any sense. My water meter reads down to tenths of a gallon. That is a tiny amount of water. If I open the valve and it starts spinning like a clock, I've got a leak. Do you think I'd just walk away and think "Oh well, I guess it just takes 500 gallons to fill the toilet!". I'd have to be blindfolded to not notice this.
      - quesera 5y ago
        Nope, if it starts spinning it means you have a tank to fill (toilets, water heater, etc), or a system to pressurize (hundreds of feet of pipe). In the minutes required to do this, you could be leaking gallons into a wall. Why do you think a burst pipe will flow at or above the rate of a single toilet fill? Sometimes it might, but some frozen pipe bursts create very small breaches in the pipe wall. A tiny, steady stream inside a wall will barely if at all register on the spinner, and might not be audible at the valve. But it could cause a lot of damage.
        sidewndr46 5y ago
        Hundreds of feet of pipe? Where do you think I live, some estate where I have 100 acres to myself?
        quesera 5y ago
        Obviously it varies. But having plumbed entire houses, I can tell you that it adds up. Supply line in the basement, a run to the water heater(s), then forking into two parallel lines (hot and cold) to supply kitchen(s) and bathroom(s), verticals to get to higher floors, sometimes horizontal runs if the bathrooms are not stacked, etc. Cold supply to the outdoor spigots. Even small single-story houses with perfectly located utilities will have several dozen feet of potable water lines. Add stories or less-convenient utility locations and you can be well into the hundreds.

hnu0847 5y ago

Can you please elaborate on this? Why wouldn't shutting off the water supply to my house and then completely draining the pipes by running the lowest faucet in the house be the safest way to protect against burst pipes? Or am I misunderstanding your recommendation?

quesera 5y ago
That is the proper way, sorry if I wasn't clear. But also, there are often low points in the piping that are not drained by the lowest faucet. And people frequently forget traps, tanks, and toilets.