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Tesla markets their software as "full self-driving". Their page on their own website[1] for the autopilot has a video which starts with the words "The person i

Tesla markets their software as "full self-driving". Their page on their own website[1] for the autopilot has a video which starts with the words "The person in the driver's seat is only there for legal reasons. He is not doing anything. The car is driving itself." Followed by a video of a tesla driving itself on public roads with other cars around while the person's hands are not on the wheel. While they have those disclaimers, they are only there to try to protect themselves from liability. But their marketing, and especially the words from Elon's mouth, are 100% geared towards making the consumer believe that the system is capable of driving itself. They can claim they told the driver to always be in charge, but there's no way (in my eyes) that they can do that with a straight face. "You gotta keep your hands on the wheel and always be in charge wink." [1]: https://www.tesla.com/autopilot https://www.tesla.com/autopilot

toomuchtodo 5y ago
They market the vehicles as being capable of full self driving at some point in the future. They don't market them as being capable of such today. It's in the very copy you cite at the end of your comment. > Current Autopilot features require active driver supervision and do not make the vehicle autonomous. (Control-F of this quote gets you there) EDIT: You must also acknowledge that you remain in control of the vehicle when activating Autopilot within the vehicle: https://www.tesla.com/sites/default/files/images/autosteer-enable-s-x.jpg https://www.tesla.com/sites/default/files/images/autosteer-e... You're also reminded each and every time you activate Autosteer.
- _aavaa_ 5y ago
  Again, same thing. That's not there for customers, that's there so they can tell regulators "Look! See. We told them to be careful."
  - creckic 5y ago
    It clearly states what it is when you actually purchase the vehicle, and also constantly reminds you while driving.
- InitialLastName 5y ago
  > It's in the very copy you site at the end of your comment. Most of the way down a long page, in faint small text in the middle of a blurb. Nothing could possibly scream "we don't want you to read this, but we're required to put it in so that we and our fans can continue to make bad-faith defenses of our marketing program" more.
- melenaboija 5y ago
  Then maybe change the name Autopilot to something else. Cars are not publicized with Autobrake systems that you have to press the pedal to stop. That would be confusing.
  - creckic 5y ago
    No, the name is accurate. Wikipedia: "An autopilot is a system used to control the path of an aircraft, car, marine craft or spacecraft without requiring constant manual control by a human operator. Autopilots do not replace human operators. Instead, the autopilot assists the operator's control of the vehicle, allowing the operator to focus on broader aspects of operations (for example, monitoring the trajectory, weather and on-board systems)."
    - melenaboija 5y ago
      Well the etymology is clear too. Which I would say is the intuition some people could be using. Not sure people visit Wikipedia to learn about levels of auto piloting. Automatic: From Greek automatos, ‘acting of itself’ Pilot: early 16th century (denoting a person who steers a ship): from French pilote, from medieval Latin pilotus, an alteration of pedota, based on Greek pēdon ‘oar’, (plural) ‘rudder
- eldaisfish 5y ago
  that is then misleading. it's as simple as that. Tesla should be fined for this and i'm really surprised they haven't already been. Hiding behind legalese and specific wording is the textbook definition of misleading. How would you feel if i sold you an "apple peeler" and made you sign a legal agreement where i stated that the "apple peeler" was not capable of peeling apples today but at some indeterminate point in the future? Is that not misleading? Why are you arguing semantics for a scummy corporate?
- me_me_me 5y ago
  Hello sir would you like to buy our Car (tm) on pg 39 of purchase contract its clearly stated its a bicycle for now as we are still developing our Car (tm) to be a car. Tell me how is that different to calling a driver assist a Autopilot as it aspires to be an autopilot but for now its just a driver assist called Autopilot*.
  - creckic 5y ago
    Except the purchase page clearly state that autonomous features are not avaiable today, and the car itself constantly reminds you to be in control. Also, Autopilot on Wikipedia: "An autopilot is a system used to control the path of an aircraft, car, marine craft or spacecraft without requiring constant manual control by a human operator. Autopilots do not replace human operators. Instead, the autopilot assists the operator's control of the vehicle, allowing the operator to focus on broader aspects of operations (for example, monitoring the trajectory, weather and on-board systems)." Again: "Autopilots do not replace human operators. Instead, the autopilot assists the operator's control of the vehicle"
    - me_me_me 5y ago
      Kinda pointless, since you sidestep the whole point. I am not interested in PR style discussions with technicalities being used as a scapegoat points. Its entirely unproductive and should be strictly reserved to cable news programs. If i buy strawberry ice-cream in strawberry ice-cream packaging I dont give a fuck that there is a sign on the back of package saying this is frozen broccoli.
      - creckic 5y ago
        But it is exactly what it is sold at. The page where you choose the FSD package makes it 100% clear. There is no confusion about what you get.
me_me_me 5y ago
There is definitely a lot of gray area for lawyers to argue about this in court. And its solely tesla's fault for all mis-information for sake of PR, that muddied the water around issue of responsibility. 'Driver assist' leave very little to argue/interpret who is charge of driving.
f0xJtpvHYTVQ88B 5y ago
All new Tesla cars have the hardware needed in the future for full self-driving in almost all circumstances. The system is designed to be able to conduct short and long distance trips with no action required by the person in the driver’s seat. The future use of these features without supervision is dependent on achieving reliability far in excess of human drivers as demonstrated by billions of miles of experience, as well as regulatory approval, which may take longer in some jurisdictions. As these self-driving capabilities are introduced, your car will be continuously upgraded through over-the-air software updates.
- _aavaa_ 5y ago
  Are you a bot? This literally reads like Tesla PR.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
creckic 5y ago
Tesla does not market their software as "full self-driving". They are saying that the software will be FSD in the future. The words from Elon's mouth make a clear separation between Autopilot as a driver assist system, and FSD as autonomy. Furthermore, Autopilot constantly reminds you while driving. There is zero confusion.
- bumby 5y ago
  >There is zero confusion. I think for many general laypeople (not the HN tech-oriented), there IS confusion. It is also not helped by Tesla's marketing, such as naming the system "autopilot" which has a different colloquial meaning than may be understood in engineering circles. Note how most other manufacturers are generally prefer naming their systems some variant of "driver assist" or "cruise control"
  - creckic 5y ago
    Sure, people without Teslas may be confused. No one who actually owns one is confused about Tesla's Autopilot because not only do you have to agree on how to use it before you can enable it, but it constantly nags and reminds you while driving. And Wikipedia: "Autopilots do not replace human operators. Instead, the autopilot assists the operator's control of the vehicle"
    - bumby 5y ago
      >"Autopilots do not replace human operators. Instead, the autopilot assists the operator's control of the vehicle" That's why I was careful to say the colloquial definition. IMO this is also why other companies deliberately name their systems something like "driver assist". It errs on the side of removing ambiguity. The colloquial definition is generally much more aligned with "operating without having to focus on the task at hand." I don't think Tesla wants their drivers to operate the car without focusing on the act of driving because it has an "autopilot" feature.
bryanlarsen 5y ago
There is no confusion in this case, though. Full Self Driving costs extra, currently $12K. If you don't pay the extra money, you don't get full self driving, you only get a fancy cruise control.

toomuchtodo 5y ago

They market the vehicles as being capable of full self driving at some point in the future. They don't market them as being capable of such today. It's in the very copy you cite at the end of your comment. > Current Autopilot features require active driver supervision and do not make the vehicle autonomous. (Control-F of this quote gets you there) EDIT: You must also acknowledge that you remain in control of the vehicle when activating Autopilot within the vehicle: https://www.tesla.com/sites/default/files/images/autosteer-enable-s-x.jpg https://www.tesla.com/sites/default/files/images/autosteer-e... You're also reminded each and every time you activate Autosteer.

_aavaa_ 5y ago
Again, same thing. That's not there for customers, that's there so they can tell regulators "Look! See. We told them to be careful."
- creckic 5y ago
  It clearly states what it is when you actually purchase the vehicle, and also constantly reminds you while driving.
InitialLastName 5y ago
> It's in the very copy you site at the end of your comment. Most of the way down a long page, in faint small text in the middle of a blurb. Nothing could possibly scream "we don't want you to read this, but we're required to put it in so that we and our fans can continue to make bad-faith defenses of our marketing program" more.
melenaboija 5y ago
Then maybe change the name Autopilot to something else. Cars are not publicized with Autobrake systems that you have to press the pedal to stop. That would be confusing.
- creckic 5y ago
  No, the name is accurate. Wikipedia: "An autopilot is a system used to control the path of an aircraft, car, marine craft or spacecraft without requiring constant manual control by a human operator. Autopilots do not replace human operators. Instead, the autopilot assists the operator's control of the vehicle, allowing the operator to focus on broader aspects of operations (for example, monitoring the trajectory, weather and on-board systems)."
  - melenaboija 5y ago
    Well the etymology is clear too. Which I would say is the intuition some people could be using. Not sure people visit Wikipedia to learn about levels of auto piloting. Automatic: From Greek automatos, ‘acting of itself’ Pilot: early 16th century (denoting a person who steers a ship): from French pilote, from medieval Latin pilotus, an alteration of pedota, based on Greek pēdon ‘oar’, (plural) ‘rudder
eldaisfish 5y ago
that is then misleading. it's as simple as that. Tesla should be fined for this and i'm really surprised they haven't already been. Hiding behind legalese and specific wording is the textbook definition of misleading. How would you feel if i sold you an "apple peeler" and made you sign a legal agreement where i stated that the "apple peeler" was not capable of peeling apples today but at some indeterminate point in the future? Is that not misleading? Why are you arguing semantics for a scummy corporate?
me_me_me 5y ago
Hello sir would you like to buy our Car (tm) on pg 39 of purchase contract its clearly stated its a bicycle for now as we are still developing our Car (tm) to be a car. Tell me how is that different to calling a driver assist a Autopilot as it aspires to be an autopilot but for now its just a driver assist called Autopilot*.
- creckic 5y ago
  Except the purchase page clearly state that autonomous features are not avaiable today, and the car itself constantly reminds you to be in control. Also, Autopilot on Wikipedia: "An autopilot is a system used to control the path of an aircraft, car, marine craft or spacecraft without requiring constant manual control by a human operator. Autopilots do not replace human operators. Instead, the autopilot assists the operator's control of the vehicle, allowing the operator to focus on broader aspects of operations (for example, monitoring the trajectory, weather and on-board systems)." Again: "Autopilots do not replace human operators. Instead, the autopilot assists the operator's control of the vehicle"
  - me_me_me 5y ago
    Kinda pointless, since you sidestep the whole point. I am not interested in PR style discussions with technicalities being used as a scapegoat points. Its entirely unproductive and should be strictly reserved to cable news programs. If i buy strawberry ice-cream in strawberry ice-cream packaging I dont give a fuck that there is a sign on the back of package saying this is frozen broccoli.
    - creckic 5y ago
      But it is exactly what it is sold at. The page where you choose the FSD package makes it 100% clear. There is no confusion about what you get.

me_me_me 5y ago

There is definitely a lot of gray area for lawyers to argue about this in court. And its solely tesla's fault for all mis-information for sake of PR, that muddied the water around issue of responsibility. 'Driver assist' leave very little to argue/interpret who is charge of driving.

f0xJtpvHYTVQ88B 5y ago

All new Tesla cars have the hardware needed in the future for full self-driving in almost all circumstances. The system is designed to be able to conduct short and long distance trips with no action required by the person in the driver’s seat. The future use of these features without supervision is dependent on achieving reliability far in excess of human drivers as demonstrated by billions of miles of experience, as well as regulatory approval, which may take longer in some jurisdictions. As these self-driving capabilities are introduced, your car will be continuously upgraded through over-the-air software updates.

_aavaa_ 5y ago
Are you a bot? This literally reads like Tesla PR.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

creckic 5y ago

Tesla does not market their software as "full self-driving". They are saying that the software will be FSD in the future. The words from Elon's mouth make a clear separation between Autopilot as a driver assist system, and FSD as autonomy. Furthermore, Autopilot constantly reminds you while driving. There is zero confusion.

bumby 5y ago
>There is zero confusion. I think for many general laypeople (not the HN tech-oriented), there IS confusion. It is also not helped by Tesla's marketing, such as naming the system "autopilot" which has a different colloquial meaning than may be understood in engineering circles. Note how most other manufacturers are generally prefer naming their systems some variant of "driver assist" or "cruise control"
- creckic 5y ago
  Sure, people without Teslas may be confused. No one who actually owns one is confused about Tesla's Autopilot because not only do you have to agree on how to use it before you can enable it, but it constantly nags and reminds you while driving. And Wikipedia: "Autopilots do not replace human operators. Instead, the autopilot assists the operator's control of the vehicle"
  - bumby 5y ago
    >"Autopilots do not replace human operators. Instead, the autopilot assists the operator's control of the vehicle" That's why I was careful to say the colloquial definition. IMO this is also why other companies deliberately name their systems something like "driver assist". It errs on the side of removing ambiguity. The colloquial definition is generally much more aligned with "operating without having to focus on the task at hand." I don't think Tesla wants their drivers to operate the car without focusing on the act of driving because it has an "autopilot" feature.

bryanlarsen 5y ago

There is no confusion in this case, though. Full Self Driving costs extra, currently $12K. If you don't pay the extra money, you don't get full self driving, you only get a fancy cruise control.