I think this is bang on the money. Before asking _if_ software engineering is "real engineering" we should ask what we mean by engineering and why the question

I think this is bang on the money. Before asking _if_ software engineering is "real engineering" we should ask what we mean by engineering and why the question matters, otherwise it's a fruitless effort of talking past each other. Hillel seems to want to ask if we're "real engineers" so that we can learn from the other engineering disciplines, especially on taking responsibility, which I think is a good way to frame the question. Most of these comments seem to instead bicker about semantics, which I feel misses the opportunity to be more focused and constructive.