6 ms·

The internet to me was a blessing and a curse. In economic terms, it has granted me lots of opportunities I might have not otherwise had; in social terms, it ha

by toyg 5y ago

The internet to me was a blessing and a curse. In economic terms, it has granted me lots of opportunities I might have not otherwise had; in social terms, it has taken a big toll, significantly isolating me from the world, which I didn't admit until very recently. I remember a smart classmate at university who, one day, just stopped attending and sold his computers, saying something like "these little colored lights have turned me into something I don't like". Some days I wish I had done the same.

Simon321 5y ago
You've isolated yourself from the world man, if it wasn't Internet it would've been something else. If you really don't want to be isolated you can change that right now.
- mchaver 5y ago
  > if it wasn't Internet it would've been something else I think that is a big assumption to make for someone we don't know well. I do believe some unique experiences can have a huge effect on individuals and other experiences might not replicate the same results.
- periphrasis 5y ago
  Agreed on the latter point. But on the former, would it though? Prior to the internet, isolating yourself from the world involved making a very deliberate and drastic life choice that completely changed your environment, like joining a monastery. Now though, a compelling and addictive alternate world awaits us in our pocket at all times. Indeed, I doubt either of us really cares much about this “conversation” or each other yet here we are wasting part of our morning shouting into the void. On that note I think I’m done with unintentional internet use for the day.
  - JKCalhoun 5y ago
    Spot on. Much, much easier to isolate yourself now. In fact, I'll concede it is even possible that you have to work not to isolate yourself when, after dipping your toe into the internet, you trip into the rabbit hole.
    - sam0x17 5y ago
      It cuts both ways though. Without the internet I know for one I would definitely be a lot more isolated and have fewer social connections.
  - toyg 5y ago
    > I doubt either of us really cares much about this “conversation” or each other yet here we are One of the big problems is that we do care for the conversation on these forums (see also the classic "somebody is WRONG on the internet" xkcd), but we don't really care for each other. Relatively few of us end up actually meeting offline or ever establishing real relationships. So you get the illusion of socialization, but when the chips are down, nobody is going to care in your hour of need - which means you're indeed alone shouting into the void. This was maybe less pronounced in the '90s, when internet groups were smaller and tighter. It's like sitting at some cafe on a small square talking to strangers - where in the past you'd be talking to the small cast of regulars, because the square was a bit hidden away from the main flow of people, but it has been since discovered by tourists, and now you're just chatting with passersby you'll never meet again, about topics you'll never do anything about.
- Cthulhu_ 5y ago
  I mean, the internet IS (was?) my social life; I hate going out (see: overstimulation / sensory processing disorder), I didn't understand existing social activities (see: autism spectrum disorder), and most 'nerdy' hobbies that are then advertised are dominated by (often toxic) men that I don't want to associate with. I mean I don't think I'm that far out there, these activities cost a lot of mental energy and leaving my comfort zone, and I like to think that thanks to the pandemic, a lot more people have become OK with being at home. Anyway yeah, the internet was my social life, it's where I met my live-in girlfriend, it's where I spend my spare time, it's fine for me.
abyssin 5y ago
This reminds me of the saying in the psychedelic culture: “Once you’ve got the message, hang up the phone.” In March 2021 I made a similar decision regarding my use of Reddit. I’ve lost years doom-scrolling, but it’s also taught me useful things, especially regarding how to take care of my health. Now I feel like I’m getting more from books and I’ve transitioned to reading more of them. (Some of the reclaimed time also went towards caring for my first child.) It isn’t too late to hang up the phone.
- iratewizard 5y ago
  Same boat on turning off reddit years ago. I hope significantly more people do the same.
  - Forgeties79 5y ago
    I unsubbed from all default subs except “world news” (which I don’t comment in) and basically only hang out on my niche hobby/professional subs now. If you curate it and cut out the really toxic, highly-attractive subs that really pull you in, it’s a way better experience. Took me almost 10 years recognize the issue but I’m glad I did.
  - Cthulhu_ 5y ago
    It's all right these days, if you're into mindless entertainment; they got rid of a lot of the more toxic parts (the_donald and co) and pornography is de-emphasized, likely will be removed altogether in the future. My feeds are now mainly poorly Paint-edited memes, cat photos / videos, and sometimes a bit of drama from the relationships or "am I the asshole" subreddits. I don't actually do that much for mental stimulation anymore. HN doesn't do it for me anymore since three quarters are about technology or industries I'm far removed from, plus I never liked the SV culture of overhyping and grinding out startups to fish for early retirement. It's that culture that gave us the gig economy and that encourages the sigma male grindset bullshit where if you don't work 16 hours a day maintaining a healthy daily balance of soylent, melatonin, LSD and meditation you're not cool enough.
    - 5y ago
andrew_eit 5y ago
I don't understand these negative comments about what "computers/internet" has done to me etc. Yes, there are certainly aspects of computers, the internet and especially social networking and instant-texting that have a net negative impact on our lives. But this argument strikes me as a "I'm such a victim" argument. Surely if you allow some device to have such a massive negative impact on your life then this would be the case even pre-90s before computers and the internet became mainstream? - Maybe you might have spent too much time hanging out at your local bar? - Perhaps you'd have been addicted to television? The one area, where I wholeheartedly agree and recognize the serious dangerous of the internet and computer devices is in children. The threat of cyber-bullying and indeed, rather more subtle, the attention-seeking culture of always producing content at a young age is IMO, very scary when thought of in the context that these will be future adults who didn't know better. We need to guard against these enabled social pressures like we protect kids from smoking, drugs, alcohol and even to a lesser extend (i.e. it's not illegal) addictions to things like TV, video games and other behaviors that they might fall prey to. I guess, summed up what I am saying is: It appears that there the internet has developed a predatory nature on one's attention that extends to threaten one's social status and reputation. Where I disagree is that - as adults - we know better and can combat this with self-discipline and by choosing our friends/social circles wisely (I don't engage with friends who constantly text or post online. I'm happy to meet but they know not to expect my participation there). Where I agree is that, children are vulnerable to this and must be protected AND TAUGHT how to treat / interact with the internet. Unfortunately, since this is relatively a new thing in society. We have not yet developed a solid culture around what is acceptable and what is not. Just like it is inconceivable now to smoke inside a closed room, or someone's house, I do hope that in the future it would be inconceivable to upload compromising information/pictures to random servers in foreign countries. But alas, we are not there yet.
- JKCalhoun 5y ago
  > Surely if you allow some device to have such a massive negative impact on your life then this would be the case even pre-90s before computers and the internet became mainstream? Yes, but we are not living in the pre-90's. The internet is the TV/bar/etc. for us now. Some of us recognize that we not only gained but lost something as well. And we want what we lost back.
slothtrop 5y ago
I've forgotten what the alternative is like. Most of my hobbies, notwithstanding the minimal social media use, rely on the computer. I use it to write, to manage and search recipes to cook with, to use music notation or tabs, to game. I've had to deliberately schedule some low-tech/low-fi activities for myself but they are few in number: there is a barrier of inconvenience in the form of travel, cost, and timing for social activities. Therefore they are relegated to the weekends if anything. I wonder if historically after working hours and time with family, were people primarily engaged in social activity owing to the dearth of ways to amuse ourselves alone? I say this not really wanting or missing more of a social life than I have, I have my needs met with just family and occasional friends. On the other hand I recognize a kind of saturation point with electronic use, that if I rely on them too long it is to the detriment of my well-being. All of which to say I have no idea how I ought to organize life around computers differently.
- basisword 5y ago
  >> All of which to say I have no idea how I ought to organize life around computers differently. I'll give you an example of something I've done recently which has made a big difference. Although, I don't have ideas on how to apply this to other aspects of my computer use (but open to ideas). I listen to a lot of music. My teenage years/20's revolved completely around music. But I've gotten to a point where Apple Music/Spotify have become like Netflix to me - I have so much choice I don't know what to choose. I like to buy vinyl but it's expensive and not practical for most of my daily listening. I thought about it and realised that, for me, the time when music and technology merged for the best overall experience was the iPod (pre-Touch). I would mostly listen to albums I bought via iTunes (i.e. I cared enough about them to spend money and would listen to them a lot) and I checked out new music via Spotify (which was available in the UK in maybe 06/07) and then bought the stuff I liked on iTunes so I could take it with me on my iPod. So I bought an iPod Classic on eBay. I deleted all the music I'd 'added' to Apple Music over the years leaving only my pre-streaming purchases (I also signed up for iTunes Match to backup and sync all my Bandcamp purchases + vinyl download card tracks). I've went back to my system of Spotify for new stuff, purchasing new stuff on iTunes, and syncing it to my iPod. It weirdly feels like a burden has been lifted having so much unnecessary choice removed. It's giving me a chance to get obsessed with the stuff I like again instead of quickly moving on to the next thing the algorithm throws at me. I highly recommend it. Currently thinking of ways I can apply this elsewhere in my life (e.g. purchasing TV/movies on iTunes instead of using streaming services but this could get very expensive very quickly).
sneak 5y ago
> in social terms, it has taken a big toll, significantly isolating me from the world, which I didn't admit until very recently. counterpoint: my entire social scene, and all of my best friends, came from a subculture that I found on an internet mailing list, on a listserv run by the guy who made the Apache webserver. A bunch of my other friends came from IRC. If it weren't for the 'net, I'm not sure I'd have any good people in my life at all.
mandernt 5y ago

by toyg 5y ago

Simon321 5y ago

You've isolated yourself from the world man, if it wasn't Internet it would've been something else. If you really don't want to be isolated you can change that right now.

mchaver 5y ago
> if it wasn't Internet it would've been something else I think that is a big assumption to make for someone we don't know well. I do believe some unique experiences can have a huge effect on individuals and other experiences might not replicate the same results.
periphrasis 5y ago
Agreed on the latter point. But on the former, would it though? Prior to the internet, isolating yourself from the world involved making a very deliberate and drastic life choice that completely changed your environment, like joining a monastery. Now though, a compelling and addictive alternate world awaits us in our pocket at all times. Indeed, I doubt either of us really cares much about this “conversation” or each other yet here we are wasting part of our morning shouting into the void. On that note I think I’m done with unintentional internet use for the day.
- JKCalhoun 5y ago
  Spot on. Much, much easier to isolate yourself now. In fact, I'll concede it is even possible that you have to work not to isolate yourself when, after dipping your toe into the internet, you trip into the rabbit hole.
  - sam0x17 5y ago
    It cuts both ways though. Without the internet I know for one I would definitely be a lot more isolated and have fewer social connections.
- toyg 5y ago
  > I doubt either of us really cares much about this “conversation” or each other yet here we are One of the big problems is that we do care for the conversation on these forums (see also the classic "somebody is WRONG on the internet" xkcd), but we don't really care for each other. Relatively few of us end up actually meeting offline or ever establishing real relationships. So you get the illusion of socialization, but when the chips are down, nobody is going to care in your hour of need - which means you're indeed alone shouting into the void. This was maybe less pronounced in the '90s, when internet groups were smaller and tighter. It's like sitting at some cafe on a small square talking to strangers - where in the past you'd be talking to the small cast of regulars, because the square was a bit hidden away from the main flow of people, but it has been since discovered by tourists, and now you're just chatting with passersby you'll never meet again, about topics you'll never do anything about.
Cthulhu_ 5y ago
I mean, the internet IS (was?) my social life; I hate going out (see: overstimulation / sensory processing disorder), I didn't understand existing social activities (see: autism spectrum disorder), and most 'nerdy' hobbies that are then advertised are dominated by (often toxic) men that I don't want to associate with. I mean I don't think I'm that far out there, these activities cost a lot of mental energy and leaving my comfort zone, and I like to think that thanks to the pandemic, a lot more people have become OK with being at home. Anyway yeah, the internet was my social life, it's where I met my live-in girlfriend, it's where I spend my spare time, it's fine for me.

abyssin 5y ago

This reminds me of the saying in the psychedelic culture: “Once you’ve got the message, hang up the phone.” In March 2021 I made a similar decision regarding my use of Reddit. I’ve lost years doom-scrolling, but it’s also taught me useful things, especially regarding how to take care of my health. Now I feel like I’m getting more from books and I’ve transitioned to reading more of them. (Some of the reclaimed time also went towards caring for my first child.) It isn’t too late to hang up the phone.

iratewizard 5y ago
Same boat on turning off reddit years ago. I hope significantly more people do the same.
- Forgeties79 5y ago
  I unsubbed from all default subs except “world news” (which I don’t comment in) and basically only hang out on my niche hobby/professional subs now. If you curate it and cut out the really toxic, highly-attractive subs that really pull you in, it’s a way better experience. Took me almost 10 years recognize the issue but I’m glad I did.
- Cthulhu_ 5y ago
  It's all right these days, if you're into mindless entertainment; they got rid of a lot of the more toxic parts (the_donald and co) and pornography is de-emphasized, likely will be removed altogether in the future. My feeds are now mainly poorly Paint-edited memes, cat photos / videos, and sometimes a bit of drama from the relationships or "am I the asshole" subreddits. I don't actually do that much for mental stimulation anymore. HN doesn't do it for me anymore since three quarters are about technology or industries I'm far removed from, plus I never liked the SV culture of overhyping and grinding out startups to fish for early retirement. It's that culture that gave us the gig economy and that encourages the sigma male grindset bullshit where if you don't work 16 hours a day maintaining a healthy daily balance of soylent, melatonin, LSD and meditation you're not cool enough.
  - 5y ago

andrew_eit 5y ago

I don't understand these negative comments about what "computers/internet" has done to me etc. Yes, there are certainly aspects of computers, the internet and especially social networking and instant-texting that have a net negative impact on our lives. But this argument strikes me as a "I'm such a victim" argument. Surely if you allow some device to have such a massive negative impact on your life then this would be the case even pre-90s before computers and the internet became mainstream? - Maybe you might have spent too much time hanging out at your local bar? - Perhaps you'd have been addicted to television? The one area, where I wholeheartedly agree and recognize the serious dangerous of the internet and computer devices is in children. The threat of cyber-bullying and indeed, rather more subtle, the attention-seeking culture of always producing content at a young age is IMO, very scary when thought of in the context that these will be future adults who didn't know better. We need to guard against these enabled social pressures like we protect kids from smoking, drugs, alcohol and even to a lesser extend (i.e. it's not illegal) addictions to things like TV, video games and other behaviors that they might fall prey to. I guess, summed up what I am saying is: It appears that there the internet has developed a predatory nature on one's attention that extends to threaten one's social status and reputation. Where I disagree is that - as adults - we know better and can combat this with self-discipline and by choosing our friends/social circles wisely (I don't engage with friends who constantly text or post online. I'm happy to meet but they know not to expect my participation there). Where I agree is that, children are vulnerable to this and must be protected AND TAUGHT how to treat / interact with the internet. Unfortunately, since this is relatively a new thing in society. We have not yet developed a solid culture around what is acceptable and what is not. Just like it is inconceivable now to smoke inside a closed room, or someone's house, I do hope that in the future it would be inconceivable to upload compromising information/pictures to random servers in foreign countries. But alas, we are not there yet.

JKCalhoun 5y ago
> Surely if you allow some device to have such a massive negative impact on your life then this would be the case even pre-90s before computers and the internet became mainstream? Yes, but we are not living in the pre-90's. The internet is the TV/bar/etc. for us now. Some of us recognize that we not only gained but lost something as well. And we want what we lost back.

slothtrop 5y ago

I've forgotten what the alternative is like. Most of my hobbies, notwithstanding the minimal social media use, rely on the computer. I use it to write, to manage and search recipes to cook with, to use music notation or tabs, to game. I've had to deliberately schedule some low-tech/low-fi activities for myself but they are few in number: there is a barrier of inconvenience in the form of travel, cost, and timing for social activities. Therefore they are relegated to the weekends if anything. I wonder if historically after working hours and time with family, were people primarily engaged in social activity owing to the dearth of ways to amuse ourselves alone? I say this not really wanting or missing more of a social life than I have, I have my needs met with just family and occasional friends. On the other hand I recognize a kind of saturation point with electronic use, that if I rely on them too long it is to the detriment of my well-being. All of which to say I have no idea how I ought to organize life around computers differently.

basisword 5y ago
>> All of which to say I have no idea how I ought to organize life around computers differently. I'll give you an example of something I've done recently which has made a big difference. Although, I don't have ideas on how to apply this to other aspects of my computer use (but open to ideas). I listen to a lot of music. My teenage years/20's revolved completely around music. But I've gotten to a point where Apple Music/Spotify have become like Netflix to me - I have so much choice I don't know what to choose. I like to buy vinyl but it's expensive and not practical for most of my daily listening. I thought about it and realised that, for me, the time when music and technology merged for the best overall experience was the iPod (pre-Touch). I would mostly listen to albums I bought via iTunes (i.e. I cared enough about them to spend money and would listen to them a lot) and I checked out new music via Spotify (which was available in the UK in maybe 06/07) and then bought the stuff I liked on iTunes so I could take it with me on my iPod. So I bought an iPod Classic on eBay. I deleted all the music I'd 'added' to Apple Music over the years leaving only my pre-streaming purchases (I also signed up for iTunes Match to backup and sync all my Bandcamp purchases + vinyl download card tracks). I've went back to my system of Spotify for new stuff, purchasing new stuff on iTunes, and syncing it to my iPod. It weirdly feels like a burden has been lifted having so much unnecessary choice removed. It's giving me a chance to get obsessed with the stuff I like again instead of quickly moving on to the next thing the algorithm throws at me. I highly recommend it. Currently thinking of ways I can apply this elsewhere in my life (e.g. purchasing TV/movies on iTunes instead of using streaming services but this could get very expensive very quickly).

sneak 5y ago

> in social terms, it has taken a big toll, significantly isolating me from the world, which I didn't admit until very recently. counterpoint: my entire social scene, and all of my best friends, came from a subculture that I found on an internet mailing list, on a listserv run by the guy who made the Apache webserver. A bunch of my other friends came from IRC. If it weren't for the 'net, I'm not sure I'd have any good people in my life at all.

mandernt 5y ago