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> Ok, where is today's Whitney Houston? In the mainstream: Adele, Sia, Ariana Grande, just to name a few. > I even saw a documentary on autotune where a music

by deng 5y ago

> Ok, where is today's Whitney Houston? In the mainstream: Adele, Sia, Ariana Grande, just to name a few. > I even saw a documentary on autotune where a music executive remarked that they don't look for great singers anymore, because the sound engineers can "fix" it. They look for pretty people. That was never different. Madonna is an absolute terrible singer, for instance, and that was fixed long before autotune existed. For recording, you just make heave use of vocal comping. Live, you can use a combination of (soft) playback and background singers. But at least Pop was never about "perfect" voices, but unique, recognizable voices that can convey emotion, and that hasn't really changed. Bowie, Björk, Leonard Cohen, Thom Yorke, Damon Albarn, these are simply great voices, but they can barely hold a tone.

WalterBright 5y ago
I understand the appeal of unusual voices (Stevie Nicks), but they aren't what I'm talking about. Madonna has great tone.
WalterBright 5y ago
> Adele https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3ASj1L6_sY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3ASj1L6_sY The tone sounds manipulated to me. There's a weird effect I hear a lot these days that seems to remove the smoothness. > Sai https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CW6-0PhCkGs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CW6-0PhCkGs Lots of electronic effects applied. > Ariana Grande https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tcYodQoapMg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tcYodQoapMg obvious autotune > Madonna Why do you say she was terrible? Are you listening to the stuff she did in the 80's, or now? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s__rX_WL100 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s__rX_WL100 This video shows her tone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79fzeNUqQbQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79fzeNUqQbQ
- WalterBright 5y ago
  For comparison, here's Whitney Houston: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eH3giaIzONA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eH3giaIzONA
- deng 5y ago
  If you'd look at live recordings, you see that these women are great singers, whereas Madonna cannot hold a tone for a second. Madonna would never have had a chance as a singer without a ton of studio equipment. So what you are actually complaining is how modern music is produced. I can certainly agree that autotune is overused nowadays. That's a fad that will go away eventually, just like the talk box, gated reverbs or heavy chorus effects.
  - WalterBright 5y ago
    I'm interested in a link to where Madonna (in her prime in the 80s) can't hold a tone. > So what you are actually complaining is how modern music is produced. Well, sure. That's what I hear. To hear good singing, I have to go back to the 80s and earlier. I still don't hear anything that can compete with the singers I listed. I listened to the singers you suggested. Listen to the links I suggested :-)
    - deng 5y ago
      > I'm interested in a link to where Madonna (in her prime in the 80s) can't hold a tone. https://youtu.be/KrG8okV9R3w?t=724 https://youtu.be/KrG8okV9R3w?t=724 The early Madonna stuff is really easy to sing, and she's really struggling. She has no control over her breathing and does the usual tricks to compensate: finish early and let the background singers take over, vocal fry, "squeeking" and other kinds of ornamentations to avoid holding notes. She clearly has had no formal training whatsoever at that point. Which is fine. As I said, this is pop, good singing is overrated, other stuff is much more important, and I actually vastly prefer Madonna over Whitney Houston any time of the day.
      - WalterBright 5y ago
        Thanks for the link. But I think it is a bit unfair. Madonna is trying to sing while dancing. How can anyone have breath control while panting? How can anyone hold a note while bouncing up and down? Music videos where the singer is singing and dancing are all lip synced. They often even lip sync their concerts. (How do I know they lip sync them? Because their "live" singing exactly matches the radio cut of their song! Nobody ever sings a song exactly the same way twice.) Secondly, Madonna's tone still comes through as great. Breath control comes with training and practice, but you can't fix anyone who doesn't have great tone.

by deng 5y ago

WalterBright 5y ago

I understand the appeal of unusual voices (Stevie Nicks), but they aren't what I'm talking about. Madonna has great tone.

WalterBright 5y ago

> Adele https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3ASj1L6_sY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3ASj1L6_sY The tone sounds manipulated to me. There's a weird effect I hear a lot these days that seems to remove the smoothness. > Sai https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CW6-0PhCkGs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CW6-0PhCkGs Lots of electronic effects applied. > Ariana Grande https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tcYodQoapMg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tcYodQoapMg obvious autotune > Madonna Why do you say she was terrible? Are you listening to the stuff she did in the 80's, or now? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s__rX_WL100 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s__rX_WL100 This video shows her tone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79fzeNUqQbQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79fzeNUqQbQ

WalterBright 5y ago
For comparison, here's Whitney Houston: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eH3giaIzONA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eH3giaIzONA
deng 5y ago
If you'd look at live recordings, you see that these women are great singers, whereas Madonna cannot hold a tone for a second. Madonna would never have had a chance as a singer without a ton of studio equipment. So what you are actually complaining is how modern music is produced. I can certainly agree that autotune is overused nowadays. That's a fad that will go away eventually, just like the talk box, gated reverbs or heavy chorus effects.
- WalterBright 5y ago
  I'm interested in a link to where Madonna (in her prime in the 80s) can't hold a tone. > So what you are actually complaining is how modern music is produced. Well, sure. That's what I hear. To hear good singing, I have to go back to the 80s and earlier. I still don't hear anything that can compete with the singers I listed. I listened to the singers you suggested. Listen to the links I suggested :-)
  - deng 5y ago
    > I'm interested in a link to where Madonna (in her prime in the 80s) can't hold a tone. https://youtu.be/KrG8okV9R3w?t=724 https://youtu.be/KrG8okV9R3w?t=724 The early Madonna stuff is really easy to sing, and she's really struggling. She has no control over her breathing and does the usual tricks to compensate: finish early and let the background singers take over, vocal fry, "squeeking" and other kinds of ornamentations to avoid holding notes. She clearly has had no formal training whatsoever at that point. Which is fine. As I said, this is pop, good singing is overrated, other stuff is much more important, and I actually vastly prefer Madonna over Whitney Houston any time of the day.
    - WalterBright 5y ago
      Thanks for the link. But I think it is a bit unfair. Madonna is trying to sing while dancing. How can anyone have breath control while panting? How can anyone hold a note while bouncing up and down? Music videos where the singer is singing and dancing are all lip synced. They often even lip sync their concerts. (How do I know they lip sync them? Because their "live" singing exactly matches the radio cut of their song! Nobody ever sings a song exactly the same way twice.) Secondly, Madonna's tone still comes through as great. Breath control comes with training and practice, but you can't fix anyone who doesn't have great tone.