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Paxlovid is one of the most incredible antiviral medications ever created. I can't wait to see COVID-19 become a virtual non-issue (for mortality) when this med

Paxlovid is one of the most incredible antiviral medications ever created. I can't wait to see COVID-19 become a virtual non-issue (for mortality) when this medication is available everywhere. As for COVID-19 morbidity, I am still quite concerned. We still don't know much about Long COVID-19, but a significant percent of people seem to be experiencing it with the Omicron variant. Not to mention other possible morbidities that may come from COVID-19: Diabetes, DVTs, kidney damage, and others edit: Please keep in mind that the animals which were bred for and tested upon in the studies that led to this medication being discovered had no choice in the matter, and I personally have a hard time justifying this practice ethically. Animal testing may lead to better discoveries, but the same exact argument could be made for forced human testing.

kevinmchugh 5y ago
The earliest omicron cases were ~2 months ago. How confident can we be about elevated long Covid from omicron at this point?
- notatoad 5y ago
  Long covid is just the existence of symptoms after the infection subsides. 2 months is plenty of time to monitor that.
kavalg 5y ago
Got COVID around Christmas. I don't know which variant. It went as a regular flu for 3-4 days, then 2 days feeling better and thinking I am recovering. 6-th day getting fever again, lots of sweating, heart rate up to 90 from 65, feeling bad for 3-5 days. Apart from aspirin and vitamins I started taking Cefuroxime for 5 days (not sure if the latter was 100% necessary, some doctors prescribe it, some not). At day 9 got another examination. Chest x-ray and cardiogram normal, body temperature still high (38C / 100F), heart rate still high, blood pressure normal. Starting to feel much better around day 14, but still not feeling recovered and heart rate was around 80. At day 20 most symptoms were gone, but still got a bit higher heart rate than usual, and some residual coughing, esp when doing some light to moderate physical activity. Now that more than a month has passed since initial symptoms, I still feel that my heart and blood circulation is not back to normal and I am a bit afraid to exercise. I only do some walks on a moderately steep trail and some stretching. I don't know if this counts as a long covid, but definitely it feels a lot different than a regular flu. It looks like most of the damage is first done to your blood circulation system and then that harms some other organs. I hope that circulation system will fully recover, but I don't know how much time it would take. Other people told me that it took them 2-3 months to feel back to normal.
- nicoburns 5y ago
  > Now that more than a month has passed since initial symptoms, I still feel that my heart and blood circulation is not back to normal and I am a bit afraid to exercise. I only do some walks on a moderately steep trail and some stretching. > Other people told me that it took them 2-3 months to feel back to normal. If you're lucky. I have similar symptoms, and I'm 18 months in and still not back to normal (I have improved, but intense exercise seems to cause a regression). > It looks like most of the damage is first done to your blood circulation system and then that harms some other organs. It seems to vary between people and infections, but that's certainly one of the ways it can go. EDIT: Not sure why this is being downvoted?
  - johnchristopher 5y ago
    > EDIT: Not sure why this is being downvoted? There's a strong vibe of long covid denial on HN and some people are quick to point to a study that stated long covid is mostly a psychological issue.
    - edmcnulty101 5y ago
      I don't think it's taken seriously from a scientific perspective. There's not too many papers on it compared to Covid as a whole.
- pqs 5y ago
  Were you vaccinated? I'm 40, I got Covid-19 in Christmas, I got the second shot of Pfizer last July. I did not have a fever, I was just very tired for a few days. Then cough came. One month later I still feel something in my chest, I cough a little when I talk, and I collapse on Friday morning, instead of Friday evening, after a week of work (so I have a little less energy than before). I'm doing push-ups, pull-ups and one leg squats as before. No problem there.
  - kavalg 5y ago
    Yes, I had the single dose Jansen vaccine in May. I also had some residual coughing when exercising or talking emotionally (positive emotions, not shouting). Same thing with strength as with you. No problem with push and pull ups, squats or jumping. It is just that my heart rate goes up faster than usual. E.g. I had to carry a 50 lbs box upstairs and after the second floor I already felt my heart beating. Wouldn't have been an issue before, even if running upstairs with 50 lbs.
throaway46546 5y ago
I had covid in April of 2020 and I still can't do any strenuous exercise without getting out of breath. Shit sucks.
- edmcnulty101 5y ago
  The vaccine carries risk of cardiovascular issues but then you increase that risk as well when you get covid. How is a fact being downvoted.
ceejayoz 5y ago
> Paxlovid is one of the most incredible antiviral medications ever created. I can't wait to see COVID-19 become a virtual non-issue (for mortality) when this medication is available everywhere. I hope we’re a little more judicious with it than we were with antibiotics.
- rbanffy 5y ago
  In general, anti-virals kill viruses before they kill the patient (a bit like chemo kills everything, but it kills cancer faster than the really important body parts). Antibiotics are far safer.
  - ceejayoz 5y ago
    I'm speaking more to the resistance end of things. Antibiotics were similarly seen as a miracle drug; now we're struggling to keep them effective due to overuse.
    - rbanffy 5y ago
      Microorganisms have been using antibiotics against each other since life begun on Earth and have evolved ways to evolve around them and develop resistance. For a drug to become ineffective, its target needs a possible evolutionary path around its effect. Depending on what the drug effect, it's possible such path does not exist. Of course, as Jeff Goldblum wisely said, life always finds a way. We can only hope it takes a long time for that to happen.
      - ceejayoz 5y ago
        > Microorganisms have been using antibiotics against each other since life begun on Earth and have evolved ways to evolve around them and develop resistance. The same is true with regards to viruses, is it not? I certainly hope they've found a pathway viruses can't evolve around, but that seems pretty unlikely. We've seen antiviral resistance evolve just like antibiotic resistance does. https://www.cdc.gov/flu/professionals/antivirals/antiviral-drug-resistance.htm https://www.cdc.gov/flu/professionals/antivirals/antiviral-d...
rbanffy 5y ago
> Animal testing may lead to better discoveries, but the same exact argument could be made for forced human testing. Morality is a human construct and, as such, it's completely arbitrary. We humans decide where we draw the line at which time. At what point of the "from annoyance to existential threat" should we draw lines for animal testing, voluntary human testing and forced human testing? There are no absolute answers for these and I hope we never need to find it out.
inglor_cz 5y ago
Synthesis of Paxlovid isn't easy, it uses a lot of reactants and we won't be producing it in volume necessary for the entire world anytime soon. https://www.science.org/content/blog-post/making-paxlovid https://www.science.org/content/blog-post/making-paxlovid
ren_engineer 5y ago
Covid might end up being kind of like WWII where a global emergency led to massive R&D spending that benefits humans in all sorts of other areas due to the tech being created. Would be nice if something good could be salvaged from the situation and these treatments can be generalized to treating other viruses
skocznymroczny 5y ago
Long Covid is problematic because it's hard to determine what symptoms exactly are caused by covid. A large chunk of long covid cases seem to be anxiety caused psychosomatic responses. I remember when the first batch of vaccines entered the market, there were many stories of people's "long covid" disappearing minutes after getting the vaccine injection.
- kvgr 5y ago
  I think I had it back in the day when it was just appearing in Italy. I was on a skying trip and a week after we came back the first case was confirmed. I felt really bad for 2 weeks, breathless, tired, like bad flu but not much of a fever. For some time I felt off, tired, unfocused. And then it just slowly dissapeared I think... but I got the vaccine 1,5 year after the susspected infection so I didn't feel a difference much. If I had covid confirmed, I would think I had long covid.
  - nicoburns 5y ago
    > If I had covid confirmed, I would think I had long covid. Worth noting the post-viral fatigue and other post-viral symptoms are well established phenomena following other viral infections including influenza.
WillPostForFood 5y ago
>but a significant percent of people seem to be experiencing it with the Omicron variant How do we know if this is true? Omicron was only identified two months ago, the bulk the cases have been in the last 30 days. Not enough time has passed to qualify for long covid, so there is very little to even measure at this point. If you were sick two weeks ago and still feel bad, that's not unusual with a respiratory virus or flu.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

kevinmchugh 5y ago

The earliest omicron cases were ~2 months ago. How confident can we be about elevated long Covid from omicron at this point?

notatoad 5y ago
Long covid is just the existence of symptoms after the infection subsides. 2 months is plenty of time to monitor that.

kavalg 5y ago

Got COVID around Christmas. I don't know which variant. It went as a regular flu for 3-4 days, then 2 days feeling better and thinking I am recovering. 6-th day getting fever again, lots of sweating, heart rate up to 90 from 65, feeling bad for 3-5 days. Apart from aspirin and vitamins I started taking Cefuroxime for 5 days (not sure if the latter was 100% necessary, some doctors prescribe it, some not). At day 9 got another examination. Chest x-ray and cardiogram normal, body temperature still high (38C / 100F), heart rate still high, blood pressure normal. Starting to feel much better around day 14, but still not feeling recovered and heart rate was around 80. At day 20 most symptoms were gone, but still got a bit higher heart rate than usual, and some residual coughing, esp when doing some light to moderate physical activity. Now that more than a month has passed since initial symptoms, I still feel that my heart and blood circulation is not back to normal and I am a bit afraid to exercise. I only do some walks on a moderately steep trail and some stretching. I don't know if this counts as a long covid, but definitely it feels a lot different than a regular flu. It looks like most of the damage is first done to your blood circulation system and then that harms some other organs. I hope that circulation system will fully recover, but I don't know how much time it would take. Other people told me that it took them 2-3 months to feel back to normal.

nicoburns 5y ago
> Now that more than a month has passed since initial symptoms, I still feel that my heart and blood circulation is not back to normal and I am a bit afraid to exercise. I only do some walks on a moderately steep trail and some stretching. > Other people told me that it took them 2-3 months to feel back to normal. If you're lucky. I have similar symptoms, and I'm 18 months in and still not back to normal (I have improved, but intense exercise seems to cause a regression). > It looks like most of the damage is first done to your blood circulation system and then that harms some other organs. It seems to vary between people and infections, but that's certainly one of the ways it can go. EDIT: Not sure why this is being downvoted?
- johnchristopher 5y ago
  > EDIT: Not sure why this is being downvoted? There's a strong vibe of long covid denial on HN and some people are quick to point to a study that stated long covid is mostly a psychological issue.
  - edmcnulty101 5y ago
    I don't think it's taken seriously from a scientific perspective. There's not too many papers on it compared to Covid as a whole.
pqs 5y ago
Were you vaccinated? I'm 40, I got Covid-19 in Christmas, I got the second shot of Pfizer last July. I did not have a fever, I was just very tired for a few days. Then cough came. One month later I still feel something in my chest, I cough a little when I talk, and I collapse on Friday morning, instead of Friday evening, after a week of work (so I have a little less energy than before). I'm doing push-ups, pull-ups and one leg squats as before. No problem there.
- kavalg 5y ago
  Yes, I had the single dose Jansen vaccine in May. I also had some residual coughing when exercising or talking emotionally (positive emotions, not shouting). Same thing with strength as with you. No problem with push and pull ups, squats or jumping. It is just that my heart rate goes up faster than usual. E.g. I had to carry a 50 lbs box upstairs and after the second floor I already felt my heart beating. Wouldn't have been an issue before, even if running upstairs with 50 lbs.

throaway46546 5y ago

I had covid in April of 2020 and I still can't do any strenuous exercise without getting out of breath. Shit sucks.

edmcnulty101 5y ago
The vaccine carries risk of cardiovascular issues but then you increase that risk as well when you get covid. How is a fact being downvoted.

ceejayoz 5y ago

> Paxlovid is one of the most incredible antiviral medications ever created. I can't wait to see COVID-19 become a virtual non-issue (for mortality) when this medication is available everywhere. I hope we’re a little more judicious with it than we were with antibiotics.

rbanffy 5y ago
In general, anti-virals kill viruses before they kill the patient (a bit like chemo kills everything, but it kills cancer faster than the really important body parts). Antibiotics are far safer.
- ceejayoz 5y ago
  I'm speaking more to the resistance end of things. Antibiotics were similarly seen as a miracle drug; now we're struggling to keep them effective due to overuse.
  - rbanffy 5y ago
    Microorganisms have been using antibiotics against each other since life begun on Earth and have evolved ways to evolve around them and develop resistance. For a drug to become ineffective, its target needs a possible evolutionary path around its effect. Depending on what the drug effect, it's possible such path does not exist. Of course, as Jeff Goldblum wisely said, life always finds a way. We can only hope it takes a long time for that to happen.
    - ceejayoz 5y ago
      > Microorganisms have been using antibiotics against each other since life begun on Earth and have evolved ways to evolve around them and develop resistance. The same is true with regards to viruses, is it not? I certainly hope they've found a pathway viruses can't evolve around, but that seems pretty unlikely. We've seen antiviral resistance evolve just like antibiotic resistance does. https://www.cdc.gov/flu/professionals/antivirals/antiviral-drug-resistance.htm https://www.cdc.gov/flu/professionals/antivirals/antiviral-d...

rbanffy 5y ago

> Animal testing may lead to better discoveries, but the same exact argument could be made for forced human testing. Morality is a human construct and, as such, it's completely arbitrary. We humans decide where we draw the line at which time. At what point of the "from annoyance to existential threat" should we draw lines for animal testing, voluntary human testing and forced human testing? There are no absolute answers for these and I hope we never need to find it out.

inglor_cz 5y ago

Synthesis of Paxlovid isn't easy, it uses a lot of reactants and we won't be producing it in volume necessary for the entire world anytime soon. https://www.science.org/content/blog-post/making-paxlovid https://www.science.org/content/blog-post/making-paxlovid

ren_engineer 5y ago

Covid might end up being kind of like WWII where a global emergency led to massive R&D spending that benefits humans in all sorts of other areas due to the tech being created. Would be nice if something good could be salvaged from the situation and these treatments can be generalized to treating other viruses

skocznymroczny 5y ago

Long Covid is problematic because it's hard to determine what symptoms exactly are caused by covid. A large chunk of long covid cases seem to be anxiety caused psychosomatic responses. I remember when the first batch of vaccines entered the market, there were many stories of people's "long covid" disappearing minutes after getting the vaccine injection.

kvgr 5y ago
I think I had it back in the day when it was just appearing in Italy. I was on a skying trip and a week after we came back the first case was confirmed. I felt really bad for 2 weeks, breathless, tired, like bad flu but not much of a fever. For some time I felt off, tired, unfocused. And then it just slowly dissapeared I think... but I got the vaccine 1,5 year after the susspected infection so I didn't feel a difference much. If I had covid confirmed, I would think I had long covid.
- nicoburns 5y ago
  > If I had covid confirmed, I would think I had long covid. Worth noting the post-viral fatigue and other post-viral symptoms are well established phenomena following other viral infections including influenza.

WillPostForFood 5y ago

>but a significant percent of people seem to be experiencing it with the Omicron variant How do we know if this is true? Omicron was only identified two months ago, the bulk the cases have been in the last 30 days. Not enough time has passed to qualify for long covid, so there is very little to even measure at this point. If you were sick two weeks ago and still feel bad, that's not unusual with a respiratory virus or flu.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]