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‘CIA sidekick’ gives £2.6M to U.K. media groups
- solaarphunk 5y ago2.6M doesn’t seem like a whole lot of money…
- selivanovp 5y agoIt’s just one of the sources. It was obvious from the beginning that outlets like Bellingcat, that were presented as independent, in reality just CIA and Mi6 pawns.
- dandare 5y agoCIA and Mi6 are controversial but that does not mean they are the same as FSB or MMS.
- sgjohnson 5y agoWhy not? Because they are “the good guys”?
- rosndo 5y agoDoes the CIA assassinate US journos for saying bad things about the government? Character assassination doesn’t count. Have western intelligence services been implicated in something similar to FSBs domestic assassination program lately? No?
- ener 5y agoBut from whom did you get that information about FSB and MSS? CIA and MI6 may assassinate anyone as they please because there is no one to expose them. At least we know that Mossad doesn't have problem with killing politicians, scientist and journos.
- rosndo 5y ago> because there is no one to expose them I do not believe this. Why do you think so?
- sgjohnson 5y ago> Character assassination doesn’t count. Why not? Character assasination is far more effective than two bullets to the back of the head. Character assasination is positive PR and a distraction. There’s no real way you can spin a “journalist who criticized the US government was found dead” story. > Have western intelligence services been implicated in something similar to FSBs domestic assassination program lately? No? Western intelligence services run torture camps and secret prisons all over the world. Just because they don’t have a domestic assasination program doesn’t make them any better.
- rosndo 5y ago>Why not? Because murdering someone and making them look bad are not the same thing. Even children know this. > Just because they don’t have a domestic assasination program doesn’t make them any better. Why not? Is the argument here that western intelligence agencies do bad stuff at a bigger scale than the FSB and the MSS? I’d love to see evidence of that. I think the truth is that western intelligence agencies face far more scrutiny. The FSB can (attempt to) murder leading opposition politicians without any meaningful domestic criticism, the same is absolutely not true of western services.
- dandare 5y agoYes, exactly. Or would you rather live in a China or Russia dominated world? Good luck. (Again, I am not saying they are not bad, I am saying they are not the same.)
- saiya-jin 5y agoCitizens of many countries ravaged by US/UK inability to see the results of their actions and policies tend to disagree... at least those that survived.
- rosndo 5y agoThose people are really unlikely to hold any opinion regarding the FSB or MSS, why would they disagree?
- sam_lowry_ 5y agoIf Bellingcat were CIA and MI6 pawns, I would rather acclaim CIA and MI6 for their ability to to create such a quality media. OTOH, Russia Today is a waste of money and resources by Putin's administration.
- shellac 5y agoThere seems to be rather more evidence that they are pawns of the "Dutch Postcode Lottery", who are a major source of income.
- james-redwood 5y agoIt’s a fair lot of money for a civil rights NGO. Even if you take a small one like Bellingcat, salaries won’t pass $60k, meaning you could staff a full on team of decent journalists of 10 people for four years.
- OnAironaut 5y agoI fucking love Bellingcat. They're doing God's work.
- denton-scratch 5y ago
- antman 5y agoAlso a minimal donation and an accidental leak is a great way to discredit various organizations and journalists as was revealed in another leak, so this should be taken with a grain of salt.
- chiefalchemist 5y agoIt's miminimal that we now know about. Now the question is: what else is still not exposed? Who is being influenced? Is it still fair to dismiss such idea as "conspiracy theory"?
- korantu 5y agoInterestingly Venezuela is listed as democratic country in this article. I suspect there are a lot of Venezuela people who would disagree with such statement.
- goodcanadian 5y agoI would argue that Venezuela is not very democratic, now, but Hugo Chavez was originally elected democratically. I suspect this is referring to actions to undermine his government at the time.
- sam_lowry_ 5y agoPretty much like Putin or Lukashenka. Both were elected democratically in the first run. The problem is, they stayed in power long after their democratic mandate expired.
- selivanovp 5y agoPutin's mandate is as solid as ever. You may hate him, but he's still overwhelmingly popular politician in Russia.
- sam_lowry_ 5y ago
- amaccuish 5y agoI lived there and will happily back their comment up. Have you? "Please don't post insinuations about astroturfing, shilling, bots, brigading, foreign agents and the like."
- sam_lowry_ 5y agoI am old enough to have lived in USSR. Can't really transpose my youth experience to contemporary Russia, though.
- _djo_ 5y agoThis is a weak attempt to discredit Bellingcat, and frankly raises more questions about Declassified UK's intentions and objectives than it does about Bellingcat. NED funding is easily and openly given to tons of entities and doesn't come with strings attached. It's no more evidence of being a 'CIA funded propaganda op' than receiving money from the Open Society Foundation makes you a Soros shill as others have also ridiculously claimed. There are valid criticisms worth making against Bellingcat, and legitimate unease at the role being played by independent and unaccountable entities like it in our discourse. Declassified UK doesn't seriously try to address any of them.
- wyuenho 5y agoIt is especially telling that just on the verge of war, this piece comes out trying to undermine credibility and trust of the US, UK and UK media, and to sow discord.
- w_t_payne 5y agoSeems sus to me.
- throwawayay02 5y agoThere is no such thing as money with no strings attached. Even if it was not meant that way, or explicit quid pro quo in any way, after time Bellingcat would be more reticent to anger their financers.
- _djo_ 5y agoIf they're the biggest chunk of your funding, sure. If it's just one funding source amongst many, which is the strategy taken by groups like Bellingcat to avoid that sort of implicit coercion, then that's really not a factor.
- sam_lowry_ 5y agoHaving worked in media, I do agree that there are always strings attached to the money. However, the relationship between money and reporting is not straightforward. For instance, Bill and Melinda Gates foundation and many other lobbyists that pay media are suggesting the topics, not the content. They pay for coverage and your editor in chief commits into producing x articles on y subjects, the content is left at the exercise of the journalist. Do not forget that journalists are often freelancers working for multiple outlets and they do try to enforce deontologic rules as a way to protect their profession. Compared to software developers, journalists earn less but own more. They do keep the right to the content and are liable individually. There are lots of restrictions in place as to what media outlets can and can not do to journalists, and some are even enshrined in laws.
- Mistletoe 5y agoWhy couldn’t we have done a massive propaganda campaign for vaccination and masks? I can’t think of anything more vital to national security and well-being and it’s been basically radio silence. I wanted Rosie the Riveter style posters on every street corner and bus. 858,000 Americans are dead. I wish the CIA had worked on that instead of dicking around on pointless shit like this.
- throwawayay02 5y agoMaybe a good rule of thumb is that every independent and not-for-profit org is actually a front for covert interests, unless they are really popular and can survive on donations alone.
- dandare 5y agoI agree. But that does not mean they are just propaganda tools. CIA and Mi6 is not the same as FSB or MSS.
- selivanovp 5y agoYeah, they're much worse and more capable.
- JabavuAdams 5y ago"Declassified could find no NED grants awarded in any of the six US-backed dictatorships in the Gulf, such as Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates. By contrast, the NED spent $9.4m on 162 grants in Venezuela – where the US seeks the removal of the Nicolás Maduro government – in 2016-19 alone."
- throwaway4good 5y agoNo doubt that Washington's efforts through NED and other organisations have beeen extremely succesful globally in setting the aganda and basic assumptions in all media coverage, particular at a time where independent media has become less and less economically viable. How do we decide who are the bad guys in Myanmar, Syria, Kashmir, Kazakhstan, Balochstan etc.? The answer lies those groups mentioned in the article.
- mrtri 5y ago
- denton-scratch 5y ago> All are seen as on the progressive end of the political spectrum Bellingcat is not seen by me as being "on the progressive end of the political spectrum". They're strongly anti-communist. That claim makes me doubt Declassified UK.
- aa-jv 5y agoAnti-communist is progressive.
- mschuster91 5y agoThat depends on what your definition of "anti-communist" is. Given that there are a lot of people who see stuff like universal healthcare insurance, usable public transport or a livable minimum wage as socialist/communist, "anti-communism" can be outright reactionary/ultra-conservative in reality. It's fine to be against authoritarian communism (China/NK-style governments) / existing "realsozialismus" governments (e.g. Cuba, Venezuela). But labelling actually positive policies like the ones I mentioned as "socialist"/"communist" and opposing these on the banner of "anti-communism" is pretty bad.
- denton-scratch 5y agoPerhaps I should have said "anti-russian". They're partisan, and very much not socialist. I'm not sure what "progressive" means. I think it's yet another in the trail of euphemisms used in the USA to refer to policies that have been associated with official enemies, such as "socialist".
- sam_lowry_ 5y ago"anti-russian" just like "anti-german" has double meaning. I guess you wanted to say that they are actively working on undermining the credibility of current Russian government.
- throwawaymanbot 5y ago
- benjamir 5y agoThe more I read it, the more I thought: yeah, good thing. Sponsoring good cause. Why not more? Honestly, I'm the opposite of a fan of past CIA actions -- I thought. If this wants to discredit the NED, I think it does it in a weird way. It's more like: let's write a supporting article, by very badly criticising? Weird, just very weird.