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I think so, too. But I’m not sure about some of its assumptions. The first anecdote bothers me: it doesn’t take intelligence to learn how to perform long divisi

I think so, too. But I’m not sure about some of its assumptions. The first anecdote bothers me: it doesn’t take intelligence to learn how to perform long division. It’s a stupid, mechanical procedure. This sounds like the common case of a student being led to think that he’s stupid because a teacher was inept at explaining something. It’s why so many are taught to hate math in school. The big assumption that runs through this is that society rewards intelligence. I know Sullivan modifies this idea in the last paragraphs, and I want to suggest that, while some people who have other skills mixed in can use their intelligence to their practical advantage, it’s rarely rewarded with material advantages on its own. Well-off people are generally well-off not because of inherited intelligence, but because they inherited being well-off.

atoav 5y ago
I had some issues with that part too. I worked with "difficult" kids for a while. And with every single kid except for one I could make significant progress. Every single one of those kids was seen as a lost cause by their teachers, parents and most often also by the kids themselves. The one kid that I could not get progress with had a serious mental condition (probably stemming from war trauma) where he would forget all the things all the time, including his own name, what he said 5 minutes ago, etc. For him maintaining the status quo was already a success. All the other kids also had their demons of course, ADHS, depression, manic phases, violent parents or none at all, etc. But you could make progress with them. Slower and more labour intensive than with stable kids from stable environments, but you could get somewhere with them — even on very complex issues — as long as you somehow manage to root it in their own experience and life and explain why it would be useful to them. Kids like these feel very sensitively if you are truly trying to help or if you see them as a lost cause and just try to get the hours done with them. This is why I am dead against accepting kids as a lost cause. What should their place in society be later? And do I want to live in such an society?
- leephillips 5y ago
  It sounds like those kids had some rare luck in having you on their side.
  - atoav 5y ago
    There were others like me as well. However it was at the same time the worst paid and most exhausting job I ever had. And that includes jobs where I had to carry packs of ceramic tiles in to the 6th floor the whole day.

atoav 5y ago

I had some issues with that part too. I worked with "difficult" kids for a while. And with every single kid except for one I could make significant progress. Every single one of those kids was seen as a lost cause by their teachers, parents and most often also by the kids themselves. The one kid that I could not get progress with had a serious mental condition (probably stemming from war trauma) where he would forget all the things all the time, including his own name, what he said 5 minutes ago, etc. For him maintaining the status quo was already a success. All the other kids also had their demons of course, ADHS, depression, manic phases, violent parents or none at all, etc. But you could make progress with them. Slower and more labour intensive than with stable kids from stable environments, but you could get somewhere with them — even on very complex issues — as long as you somehow manage to root it in their own experience and life and explain why it would be useful to them. Kids like these feel very sensitively if you are truly trying to help or if you see them as a lost cause and just try to get the hours done with them. This is why I am dead against accepting kids as a lost cause. What should their place in society be later? And do I want to live in such an society?

leephillips 5y ago
It sounds like those kids had some rare luck in having you on their side.
- atoav 5y ago
  There were others like me as well. However it was at the same time the worst paid and most exhausting job I ever had. And that includes jobs where I had to carry packs of ceramic tiles in to the 6th floor the whole day.