4 ms·

Strict punishment is the "easy" answer. When people don't know what to do, it's the first they reach for. (From the dawn of human history, "an eye for an eye"

Strict punishment is the "easy" answer. When people don't know what to do, it's the first they reach for. (From the dawn of human history, "an eye for an eye".) It seems like it should work (who would want to be in prison for the rest of their life over a $20 Amazon package), and it seems fair (if you didn't want to go to prison, you shouldn't have stolen). But, the "seems" comes from up in an ivory tower of wishful thinking. But watch this. If I told people I was a software engineering manager and I docked my employees' pay if they didn't complete sprint goals on time, HN would be outside my door ready to murder me. "Punishment doesn't work! How can you be so stupid? I hate you!" Ultimately, we have to treat the cause and not the symptoms. If people have a purpose and their basic needs met, very few of them are going to jump onto a derailed train and steal random Amazon orders. But in LA, people don't have their basic needs met. They don't have a place to live. They don't get to shower in the morning. They might not even know where their next meal comes from. Sadly, prison is probably an improvement, and selling your $20 Amazon item to someone on the street for $10 guarantees that next meal. So taking some packages off a train is a win/win. As a society, we can do a lot better than this. We don't need to sacrifice a $20 Amazon item to give someone their next meal. We could just give it to them for pennies on the dollar. We don't because... I can't even think of a reason. Puritan work ethic? A desire to punish people out of unfulfilled BDSM fantasies? I don't know. But it seems pretty fucked up to me.

josephcsible 5y ago
Why are you treating intentionally stealing as equivalent to not coding fast enough? It's easy to choose not to steal.
mc32 5y ago
I think I see a few misconceptions here. Very few people in LA are doing this crime. This is a product of "fencing". The vast majority of people in dire straights will not decide theft is the answer. Ergo, its a special person who decides, "eh, it's just theft." Second, you may not put up with deadline punishments because you "have an out" (get another job). If we had 20% unemployment and you have 20 guys and gals in line for your job and there wasn't a social safety net, you'd be glad to have a crummy manager with crummy milestones and deadlines. So, punishment works --it doesn't work if it's subverted (i.e. options). How exactly do you think trannies and communist systems work, people volunteer?
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pandaman 5y ago
Saying that criminals are the victims of the society and only have to commit crimes because their basic needs are not covered or the people think of them badly or some historic inequalities etc. is the popular answer. But watch this. If I told that I am a hedge fund manager and steal from mom and pop shops for the thrill because my life is boring, HN would be outside my door ready to murder me. "You are a psychopath! How can you be so evil? I hate you!". Ultimately I agree with you. We are fighting symptoms instead of the cause. We just disagree what the cause is.
- Tostino 5y ago
  I mean, why are you straw-manning their argument to be there is only a single reason a person would steal? For a psychopathic hedgefund manager, there will be a very different cause than someone hardly able to feed their kids.

josephcsible 5y ago

Why are you treating intentionally stealing as equivalent to not coding fast enough? It's easy to choose not to steal.

mc32 5y ago

I think I see a few misconceptions here. Very few people in LA are doing this crime. This is a product of "fencing". The vast majority of people in dire straights will not decide theft is the answer. Ergo, its a special person who decides, "eh, it's just theft." Second, you may not put up with deadline punishments because you "have an out" (get another job). If we had 20% unemployment and you have 20 guys and gals in line for your job and there wasn't a social safety net, you'd be glad to have a crummy manager with crummy milestones and deadlines. So, punishment works --it doesn't work if it's subverted (i.e. options). How exactly do you think trannies and communist systems work, people volunteer?

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pandaman 5y ago

Saying that criminals are the victims of the society and only have to commit crimes because their basic needs are not covered or the people think of them badly or some historic inequalities etc. is the popular answer. But watch this. If I told that I am a hedge fund manager and steal from mom and pop shops for the thrill because my life is boring, HN would be outside my door ready to murder me. "You are a psychopath! How can you be so evil? I hate you!". Ultimately I agree with you. We are fighting symptoms instead of the cause. We just disagree what the cause is.

Tostino 5y ago
I mean, why are you straw-manning their argument to be there is only a single reason a person would steal? For a psychopathic hedgefund manager, there will be a very different cause than someone hardly able to feed their kids.