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I find it reasonable for the cops not to make arrests if nobody is going to prosecute. I don’t consider that propaganda for the police to say as such. If the D

by cassac 5y ago

I find it reasonable for the cops not to make arrests if nobody is going to prosecute. I don’t consider that propaganda for the police to say as such. If the DA openly says they won’t prosecute a certain crime why would I expect the police to arrest for it? And of course the cops would have a cop bias, and teachers have a teacher bias, and service works have a service worker bias and on and on. Everyone looks out for their own across all cross sections of their identity. What’s different is it seems cops get no additional cross sections anymore. Once they are a cop their ven diagram shifts to 100% cop and now they are vilified.

pessimizer 5y ago
> I find it reasonable for the cops not to make arrests if nobody is going to prosecute. You find it reasonable for people to be paid and not do their jobs? They're not paid to administer justice, they're paid to do what they're told.
- cassac 5y ago
  I never said they are paid to “administer justice” but I do expect them to prioritize their activities. Making arrests for things that won’t be prosecuted is a waste of time. I’m honestly not even sure what you are advocating for. J walking is a good example of something I expect them not to bother with 99% of the time but it is a law nearly everywhere. To enforce that in a major metro could use all the cops every day. Huge waste of time.
  - pessimizer 5y ago
    I'm advocating for police to accept the priorities we give them. I don't get to set the priorities at my job; I don't get to favor working on features I think are good and to ignore features I don't. I'm given priorities. What happens after people are arrested is not relevant to the police, and they have no training or authority to make decisions about it. We elected different people for that.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
    - cassac 5y ago
      Isn’t the DA telling, both them and us, what the priority is if they say they won’t prosecute a specific crime? Along that same line of thought is that it is not relevant what the DA thinks about the law. The powers that be created the law and the DA should prosecute it every time there is an arrest and let the courts figure it out. Also in your job you are given priorities and you work on the lowest ones last. And if you always have more priorities than hours in the day then the lower priority ones don’t get done. Based on the laws that are actually on the books there are more law breakers than police officers so they have to pick and choose their priorities. That’s still a reasonable thing to do.
boucher 5y ago
Police officers often lie about what can or will be charged for political reasons (or laziness reasons, or some other reason unrelated to what the DA supposedly will or won't do). That is why the parent said it might be propaganda.
- IntrepidWorm 5y ago
  Police will often overcharge, with the intent that the DA can use the more severe charges to secure a plea deal for lesser charges. It makes for less paperwork and fewer cases to process through jury trials.
- cassac 5y ago
  If the parent wants to assert that they should provide proof as such. They didn’t do that and instead sited an example that is exactly something I would consider well reasoned for the police force. I also expect some level of grey area of truthiness because like I said earlier all groups are like that. I doubt parent jumps into every statement made by a group to remind us that sometimes people lie to serve their own interests. I do not think cops are more or less corrupt than the average, but I do believe a corrupt cop has more impact than average. And because of that I do think they need higher standards and more accountability. I do not think they as a group need to be the “them” in the “us vs them” mentality.
tedunangst 5y ago
Presumably arresting someone for robbing a morning train would at least allow you to hold them and prevent them from robbing an afternoon train.
- cassac 5y ago
  But then you won’t be able to respond to that guy shooting up the mall.
  - tedunangst 5y ago
    These are Union Pacific police. They don't respond to mall shootings.
wolverine876 5y ago
If the police fail to arrest someone, that is on them. No passing the buck. > If the DA openly says they won’t prosecute a certain crime why would I expect the police to arrest for it? Can you cite which DA said that about what crime, other than marijuana possession? > Once they are a cop their ven diagram shifts to 100% cop and now they are vilified. Let's not turn them into powerless victims, act like that is the only response police get, that they are such vulnerable people, or that it is not partly a consequence of their actions. They get all sorts of responses from lots of people, and as public officials, criticism is a part of the job. Arguably, if they did their jobs better, they wouldn't be criticized as much. But rather than changing the subject, a far more important issue is police abusing civilians: The police have a lot of power, well beyond criticism, which ruins lives. Far more important than protecting the suddenly fragile police officers' self-esteem are justice and freedom.
- fennecfoxen 5y ago
  The Los Angeles district attorney's office, under the leadership of George Gascon, has circulated a list of crimes it will not prosecute. You can read about it in the Grey Lady, if you are picky with your news sources like that. https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/17/magazine/george-gascon-los-angeles.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/17/magazine/george-gascon-lo... Do not persist in your unbelief, but believe!
  - jeffbee 5y ago
    The DA of that county is currently pretty busy trying to undo all the damage that yet another gang of openly racist cops in Torrance has done to thousands of his cases. I find it understandable that property theft has fallen down this list.
  - wolverine876 5y ago
    > The Los Angeles district attorney's office, under the leadership of George Gascon, has circulated a list of crimes it will not prosecute. ... > https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/17/magazine/george-gascon-los-angeles.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/17/magazine/george-gascon-lo... That isn't in the article. Have you ever seen evidence supporting your claim, or are you repeating what others have said (perilous, esp. on the Internet!). Here's what the article says: He mandated an end to seeking cash bail, the death penalty, the sentence of life without parole and the prosecution of anyone younger than 18 as an adult. And in a rare, if not unprecedented, move by an American prosecutor, Gascón declared his intent to effectively end very long sentences ... The article also links to a memo from Gascon regarding sentencing enhancements.

by cassac 5y ago

pessimizer 5y ago

> I find it reasonable for the cops not to make arrests if nobody is going to prosecute. You find it reasonable for people to be paid and not do their jobs? They're not paid to administer justice, they're paid to do what they're told.

cassac 5y ago
I never said they are paid to “administer justice” but I do expect them to prioritize their activities. Making arrests for things that won’t be prosecuted is a waste of time. I’m honestly not even sure what you are advocating for. J walking is a good example of something I expect them not to bother with 99% of the time but it is a law nearly everywhere. To enforce that in a major metro could use all the cops every day. Huge waste of time.
- pessimizer 5y ago
  I'm advocating for police to accept the priorities we give them. I don't get to set the priorities at my job; I don't get to favor working on features I think are good and to ignore features I don't. I'm given priorities. What happens after people are arrested is not relevant to the police, and they have no training or authority to make decisions about it. We elected different people for that.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - cassac 5y ago
    Isn’t the DA telling, both them and us, what the priority is if they say they won’t prosecute a specific crime? Along that same line of thought is that it is not relevant what the DA thinks about the law. The powers that be created the law and the DA should prosecute it every time there is an arrest and let the courts figure it out. Also in your job you are given priorities and you work on the lowest ones last. And if you always have more priorities than hours in the day then the lower priority ones don’t get done. Based on the laws that are actually on the books there are more law breakers than police officers so they have to pick and choose their priorities. That’s still a reasonable thing to do.

boucher 5y ago

Police officers often lie about what can or will be charged for political reasons (or laziness reasons, or some other reason unrelated to what the DA supposedly will or won't do). That is why the parent said it might be propaganda.

IntrepidWorm 5y ago
Police will often overcharge, with the intent that the DA can use the more severe charges to secure a plea deal for lesser charges. It makes for less paperwork and fewer cases to process through jury trials.
cassac 5y ago
If the parent wants to assert that they should provide proof as such. They didn’t do that and instead sited an example that is exactly something I would consider well reasoned for the police force. I also expect some level of grey area of truthiness because like I said earlier all groups are like that. I doubt parent jumps into every statement made by a group to remind us that sometimes people lie to serve their own interests. I do not think cops are more or less corrupt than the average, but I do believe a corrupt cop has more impact than average. And because of that I do think they need higher standards and more accountability. I do not think they as a group need to be the “them” in the “us vs them” mentality.

tedunangst 5y ago

Presumably arresting someone for robbing a morning train would at least allow you to hold them and prevent them from robbing an afternoon train.

cassac 5y ago
But then you won’t be able to respond to that guy shooting up the mall.
- tedunangst 5y ago
  These are Union Pacific police. They don't respond to mall shootings.

wolverine876 5y ago

If the police fail to arrest someone, that is on them. No passing the buck. > If the DA openly says they won’t prosecute a certain crime why would I expect the police to arrest for it? Can you cite which DA said that about what crime, other than marijuana possession? > Once they are a cop their ven diagram shifts to 100% cop and now they are vilified. Let's not turn them into powerless victims, act like that is the only response police get, that they are such vulnerable people, or that it is not partly a consequence of their actions. They get all sorts of responses from lots of people, and as public officials, criticism is a part of the job. Arguably, if they did their jobs better, they wouldn't be criticized as much. But rather than changing the subject, a far more important issue is police abusing civilians: The police have a lot of power, well beyond criticism, which ruins lives. Far more important than protecting the suddenly fragile police officers' self-esteem are justice and freedom.

fennecfoxen 5y ago
The Los Angeles district attorney's office, under the leadership of George Gascon, has circulated a list of crimes it will not prosecute. You can read about it in the Grey Lady, if you are picky with your news sources like that. https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/17/magazine/george-gascon-los-angeles.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/17/magazine/george-gascon-lo... Do not persist in your unbelief, but believe!
- jeffbee 5y ago
  The DA of that county is currently pretty busy trying to undo all the damage that yet another gang of openly racist cops in Torrance has done to thousands of his cases. I find it understandable that property theft has fallen down this list.
- wolverine876 5y ago
  > The Los Angeles district attorney's office, under the leadership of George Gascon, has circulated a list of crimes it will not prosecute. ... > https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/17/magazine/george-gascon-los-angeles.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/17/magazine/george-gascon-lo... That isn't in the article. Have you ever seen evidence supporting your claim, or are you repeating what others have said (perilous, esp. on the Internet!). Here's what the article says: He mandated an end to seeking cash bail, the death penalty, the sentence of life without parole and the prosecution of anyone younger than 18 as an adult. And in a rare, if not unprecedented, move by an American prosecutor, Gascón declared his intent to effectively end very long sentences ... The article also links to a memo from Gascon regarding sentencing enhancements.