4 ms·

I just can't get vim's modes - I'm constantly unintentionally entering keystrokes in the wrong mode, especially when I'm concentrating on what I'm doing. Of co

by muxxa 15y ago

I just can't get vim's modes - I'm constantly unintentionally entering keystrokes in the wrong mode, especially when I'm concentrating on what I'm doing. Of course emacs also has annoying modes, e.g. if you change your mind half way through a key combination, you are stuck in a mode. Ctrl+G gets you out of it with the result that I'm constantly pressing Ctrl+G in emacs before I do anything to avoid the sting of keystrokes being thrown away. I'm still waiting for Jef Raskin's modeless editor (there was a project called Archy which is now abandoned).

groovy2shoes 15y ago
Pressing escape in Vim will put you back in command mode.
- muxxa 15y ago
  Yes, I know how to use the editor and use it moderately. I'm saying there's something fundamentally unlearnable about modes for me as I keep making mode related errors after years of using both emacs and vim.
  - chalst 15y ago
    I have the same trouble when I use unconfigured vim. It gets rather better when I give vim stronger visual clues as to which mode it is in, which I seem to remember for no more that 2 seconds otherwise. The following scripts give the general idea of how to do this: 1. http://vim.wikia.com/wiki/Change_statusline_color_to_show_insert_or_normal_mode http://vim.wikia.com/wiki/Change_statusline_color_to_show_in... 2. http://www.vim.org/scripts/script.php?script_id=3165 http://www.vim.org/scripts/script.php?script_id=3165 Also, I gather than the Gnome Vim's colorscheme support allows you to affect the appearance of the whole window, not just the status line or whatever. I don't use it, though.
stevelosh 15y ago
The solution to this is that when using Vim properly you're always in normal mode except for short bursts of typing. Don't hang around in insert mode. Need to think for a second about what to type next? Get out of insert mode, think, and then enter insert mode again. The result of this is that "insert mode" stops being so much like a separate mode and starts feeling more like a command itself! It's the difference between: move over a word enter insert mode type "foo" exit insert mode move back a word and move over a word insert the word "foo" move back a word
- Symmetry 15y ago
  I totally agree with you for myself, but in order to make a more general point I'm going to have to to point out that people not destined to use vim as their primary editor can get away with doing the exact opposite. That is, they're almost always in insert mode and only briefly go to normal mode to change something. The really important thing with any modal interface is that you have one primary mode which you only leave to accomplish a task and to which you return as soon as the task is done. Even emacs has modes in that you're sometimes, say, doing an incremental search. The important thing is that when you're done you're dropped back to the usual mode by default. For more on the theory of modal interfaces, see here: http://www.osnews.com/story/18904/pt_V_Modes http://www.osnews.com/story/18904/pt_V_Modes
  - saraid216 15y ago
    I'd honestly go so far as to say that people who feel they must stay in Insert Mode most of the time should not be using Vim. They're not using Vim; they're pounding a square peg into a circular hole. They should stop pretending that they're using Vim.

by muxxa 15y ago

groovy2shoes 15y ago

Pressing escape in Vim will put you back in command mode.

muxxa 15y ago
Yes, I know how to use the editor and use it moderately. I'm saying there's something fundamentally unlearnable about modes for me as I keep making mode related errors after years of using both emacs and vim.
- chalst 15y ago
  I have the same trouble when I use unconfigured vim. It gets rather better when I give vim stronger visual clues as to which mode it is in, which I seem to remember for no more that 2 seconds otherwise. The following scripts give the general idea of how to do this: 1. http://vim.wikia.com/wiki/Change_statusline_color_to_show_insert_or_normal_mode http://vim.wikia.com/wiki/Change_statusline_color_to_show_in... 2. http://www.vim.org/scripts/script.php?script_id=3165 http://www.vim.org/scripts/script.php?script_id=3165 Also, I gather than the Gnome Vim's colorscheme support allows you to affect the appearance of the whole window, not just the status line or whatever. I don't use it, though.

stevelosh 15y ago

The solution to this is that when using Vim properly you're always in normal mode except for short bursts of typing. Don't hang around in insert mode. Need to think for a second about what to type next? Get out of insert mode, think, and then enter insert mode again. The result of this is that "insert mode" stops being so much like a separate mode and starts feeling more like a command itself! It's the difference between: move over a word enter insert mode type "foo" exit insert mode move back a word and move over a word insert the word "foo" move back a word

Symmetry 15y ago
I totally agree with you for myself, but in order to make a more general point I'm going to have to to point out that people not destined to use vim as their primary editor can get away with doing the exact opposite. That is, they're almost always in insert mode and only briefly go to normal mode to change something. The really important thing with any modal interface is that you have one primary mode which you only leave to accomplish a task and to which you return as soon as the task is done. Even emacs has modes in that you're sometimes, say, doing an incremental search. The important thing is that when you're done you're dropped back to the usual mode by default. For more on the theory of modal interfaces, see here: http://www.osnews.com/story/18904/pt_V_Modes http://www.osnews.com/story/18904/pt_V_Modes
- saraid216 15y ago
  I'd honestly go so far as to say that people who feel they must stay in Insert Mode most of the time should not be using Vim. They're not using Vim; they're pounding a square peg into a circular hole. They should stop pretending that they're using Vim.