4 ms·

> > Should I take time off? How much? > Yes, if possible several months or a year so you have time to get fully away from the grind. I honestly do not know a

> > Should I take time off? How much? > Yes, if possible several months or a year so you have time to get fully away from the grind. I honestly do not know a single person who has the funds saved up to do this.

Jach 5y ago
There are a lot of us. After a six year stint, with my current burn rate (that I expect to decrease later this year) it'd take 20 years for my savings (read index funds) to run out if they didn't grow at all. If you've been working in tech for more than a year and don't have a year's living expenses saved up/invested in liquid assets, you might want to reconsider your spending habits, or your suspiciously low salary (maybe you're not in the US?). Sure exceptions exist and it can be perfectly rational to spend almost everything now for some higher utility, especially if you plan to save later, but having the requisite income/spending ratio to save up a year's expenses is not hard for software engineers (in the US). I second the suggestion of several months to a year of time off, but admittedly it's scary to consider getting a job afterwards, since you'll not have the existing job as leverage and some places will question the gap. Depending on the company it may be possible to "boomerang" back in if your leave is under one year without having to do the interview grind again with them. Unfortunately burnout can take over a year to recover from (if ever 100%), so there's also a reasonable question of whether that extended break is going to be long enough. Maybe OP just needs a month or two, but maybe they'll need a couple years. It's hard to say whether it's better to take a minor break now and then come back until they near the breaking point again, or just power through until they literally can't, saving as much as they can so when they can't they'll have as long as they might need to rest -- which may be longer than if they just stopped now due to the accumulated damage.
- jrib 5y ago
  I've thought about taking several months between jobs. Having to deal with the health insurance aspect has always felt overly daunting however. Both from the financial aspect and even just the "how do I shop for this thing" perspective.
  - Jach 5y ago
    Health insurance isn't that bad. COBRA legislation allows you to keep your current company plan for 18 months, plus an 18 month extension if needed, with the catch that you start paying for it yourself. You'll get a letter about it with instructions. It can be rather expensive though, I recall mine being somewhere around $600/mo, so I opted to take a risk and go without for quite awhile. (Remembering the financial burden my mom got herself in when she was still alive -- she was unexpectedly laid off, and between jobs stopped having coverage, it was then that she fell and broke her arm.) Later I got a "cheapo" plan that's $280/mo this year, that's basically my hedge against similar really costly unexpected events, though having one would still be annoyingly expensive anyway since it has a high deductible. It's not hard to shop for them, basically search "[your state] health insurance" and look for the relevant portal that lets you compare and pick a plan. Here's Washington's: https://www.wahealthplanfinder.org/ https://www.wahealthplanfinder.org/
- l30n4da5 5y ago
  > If you've been working in tech for more than a year and don't have a year's living expenses saved up/invested in liquid assets, you might want to reconsider your spending habits This is probably the most detached-from-reality thing I have ever read on HN.
  - Jach 5y ago
    That's a pretty impressive feat. I'm tempted to link to things I think are more detached, but I'd prefer if you tried to correct me instead of insult me so that if I am detached I can become re-attached. As I led with, there are a lot of us, so that you don't personally know anyone (now you know at least one impersonally) says more about your social circle than anything. Hence my curiosity on whether you're in the US, outside of which I admit to not having much data apart from there often being low salaries and high taxes. I also realize exceptions exist, one might have a non-working partner and/or multiple kids and/or other circumstances that make it hard but to spend almost one's entire paycheck. I think these are exceptions though and they don't characterize most (happy to concede down to many if you can convince me) US-based software engineers/software managers/PMs/devops/... (what I meant by 'tech'; you might have me if we investigate other roles e.g. technical writers). There is also the situation where they spend but could save if they organized their finances. I want to refer to the candles budget meme, since it points to an underlying truth for a lot of people...
    - l30n4da5 5y ago
      Simply put, outside of the coasts, Software Engineers don't make nearly as much as you seem to think they do. "After a year in software engineering, you should have at least a year's living expenses saved up"? What world are you living in? Been in software nearly 10 years now. There is no way in any universe that after year 1 I would have had living expenses for a _whole year_ saved up. At a base salary of $30k starting (10 years ago, mind you), with rent at $1.5k/mo, that doesn't leave too much after taxes for savings after existing expenses, let alone being able to save up an entire year's worth of those living expenses on that salary. At the time I started, in my area, $30K/yr was the average, btw. So yes, your comment was _incredibly_ detached from reality.
lstodd 5y ago
> I honestly do not know a single person who has the funds saved up to do this. Consider that being burned out you don't have any upcoming funds anyway. If you force yourself to earn something, you just burn deeper, get fired or can't find work. So it's lose-lose, and the best advice is just let it go and focus on your mental health. Because without it there won't be any money anyway. Lean on your friends, downsize, shed everything inessential, do what it takes. But don't force yourself to continue as is, it'll only make it worse in the end.
LaundroMat 5y ago
Well, I'm lucky enough to live in Western Europe, where burnout is considered an sickness you should take enough time for to heal. That means that my (obligatory) health insurance (that is paid for mostly by my fellow countrymen) provides me with an income.

Jach 5y ago

There are a lot of us. After a six year stint, with my current burn rate (that I expect to decrease later this year) it'd take 20 years for my savings (read index funds) to run out if they didn't grow at all. If you've been working in tech for more than a year and don't have a year's living expenses saved up/invested in liquid assets, you might want to reconsider your spending habits, or your suspiciously low salary (maybe you're not in the US?). Sure exceptions exist and it can be perfectly rational to spend almost everything now for some higher utility, especially if you plan to save later, but having the requisite income/spending ratio to save up a year's expenses is not hard for software engineers (in the US). I second the suggestion of several months to a year of time off, but admittedly it's scary to consider getting a job afterwards, since you'll not have the existing job as leverage and some places will question the gap. Depending on the company it may be possible to "boomerang" back in if your leave is under one year without having to do the interview grind again with them. Unfortunately burnout can take over a year to recover from (if ever 100%), so there's also a reasonable question of whether that extended break is going to be long enough. Maybe OP just needs a month or two, but maybe they'll need a couple years. It's hard to say whether it's better to take a minor break now and then come back until they near the breaking point again, or just power through until they literally can't, saving as much as they can so when they can't they'll have as long as they might need to rest -- which may be longer than if they just stopped now due to the accumulated damage.

jrib 5y ago
I've thought about taking several months between jobs. Having to deal with the health insurance aspect has always felt overly daunting however. Both from the financial aspect and even just the "how do I shop for this thing" perspective.
- Jach 5y ago
  Health insurance isn't that bad. COBRA legislation allows you to keep your current company plan for 18 months, plus an 18 month extension if needed, with the catch that you start paying for it yourself. You'll get a letter about it with instructions. It can be rather expensive though, I recall mine being somewhere around $600/mo, so I opted to take a risk and go without for quite awhile. (Remembering the financial burden my mom got herself in when she was still alive -- she was unexpectedly laid off, and between jobs stopped having coverage, it was then that she fell and broke her arm.) Later I got a "cheapo" plan that's $280/mo this year, that's basically my hedge against similar really costly unexpected events, though having one would still be annoyingly expensive anyway since it has a high deductible. It's not hard to shop for them, basically search "[your state] health insurance" and look for the relevant portal that lets you compare and pick a plan. Here's Washington's: https://www.wahealthplanfinder.org/ https://www.wahealthplanfinder.org/
l30n4da5 5y ago
> If you've been working in tech for more than a year and don't have a year's living expenses saved up/invested in liquid assets, you might want to reconsider your spending habits This is probably the most detached-from-reality thing I have ever read on HN.
- Jach 5y ago
  That's a pretty impressive feat. I'm tempted to link to things I think are more detached, but I'd prefer if you tried to correct me instead of insult me so that if I am detached I can become re-attached. As I led with, there are a lot of us, so that you don't personally know anyone (now you know at least one impersonally) says more about your social circle than anything. Hence my curiosity on whether you're in the US, outside of which I admit to not having much data apart from there often being low salaries and high taxes. I also realize exceptions exist, one might have a non-working partner and/or multiple kids and/or other circumstances that make it hard but to spend almost one's entire paycheck. I think these are exceptions though and they don't characterize most (happy to concede down to many if you can convince me) US-based software engineers/software managers/PMs/devops/... (what I meant by 'tech'; you might have me if we investigate other roles e.g. technical writers). There is also the situation where they spend but could save if they organized their finances. I want to refer to the candles budget meme, since it points to an underlying truth for a lot of people...
  - l30n4da5 5y ago
    Simply put, outside of the coasts, Software Engineers don't make nearly as much as you seem to think they do. "After a year in software engineering, you should have at least a year's living expenses saved up"? What world are you living in? Been in software nearly 10 years now. There is no way in any universe that after year 1 I would have had living expenses for a _whole year_ saved up. At a base salary of $30k starting (10 years ago, mind you), with rent at $1.5k/mo, that doesn't leave too much after taxes for savings after existing expenses, let alone being able to save up an entire year's worth of those living expenses on that salary. At the time I started, in my area, $30K/yr was the average, btw. So yes, your comment was _incredibly_ detached from reality.

lstodd 5y ago

> I honestly do not know a single person who has the funds saved up to do this. Consider that being burned out you don't have any upcoming funds anyway. If you force yourself to earn something, you just burn deeper, get fired or can't find work. So it's lose-lose, and the best advice is just let it go and focus on your mental health. Because without it there won't be any money anyway. Lean on your friends, downsize, shed everything inessential, do what it takes. But don't force yourself to continue as is, it'll only make it worse in the end.

LaundroMat 5y ago

Well, I'm lucky enough to live in Western Europe, where burnout is considered an sickness you should take enough time for to heal. That means that my (obligatory) health insurance (that is paid for mostly by my fellow countrymen) provides me with an income.