6 ms·

> Should I tell my boss and/or team? No, they will stab you in the back, no matter how much you think they won't. > Should I take time off? How much? Yes, if

by ok_dad 5y ago

> Should I tell my boss and/or team? No, they will stab you in the back, no matter how much you think they won't. > Should I take time off? How much? Yes, if possible several months or a year so you have time to get fully away from the grind. > Is there something in my working environment I should try to change? Probably reduce the volume of work you are doing or do something that you care about more. > Is there anything specific to working in tech and burning out that I should know about? Yes, it's a constant treadmill of work, and if you aren't ready to never finish a project (all projects I've seen are in constant flux with constant changes) then get out now and find a career where you actually produce a finished product then move on to the next (like furniture building). The idea that software is a thing that is "complete" was a leftover from the 90's and the constant treadmill makes some people (myself included) go nuts.

gaws 5y ago
> Yes, if possible several months or a year How many positions in 2022 allow one to take several months to a year off and still have a job at the end?
bradenb 5y ago
> > Should I tell my boss and/or team? > No, they will stab you in the back, no matter how much you think they won't. I disagree that this is universally true. I have had at least 2 bosses that I know would help deal with burnout because 1 of them helped me and the other I have seen help others in this same situation. A good boss cares about their employee's health and wants to keep good workers. I agree that your advice is the safe route, but I think if you know for a fact you have one of the good bosses of the world then that approach can lead to better results.
- gspr 5y ago
  Ditto. Bosses vary. Don't take blanket advice like "the boss is evil". The other part of the advice, namely that your colleagues will backstab you, is even more worrisome. I'd go so far as to say that if you don't have at least some colleagues you can safely tell something like this, then you are in the wrong environment.
l30n4da5 5y ago
> > Should I take time off? How much? > Yes, if possible several months or a year so you have time to get fully away from the grind. I honestly do not know a single person who has the funds saved up to do this.
- Jach 5y ago
  There are a lot of us. After a six year stint, with my current burn rate (that I expect to decrease later this year) it'd take 20 years for my savings (read index funds) to run out if they didn't grow at all. If you've been working in tech for more than a year and don't have a year's living expenses saved up/invested in liquid assets, you might want to reconsider your spending habits, or your suspiciously low salary (maybe you're not in the US?). Sure exceptions exist and it can be perfectly rational to spend almost everything now for some higher utility, especially if you plan to save later, but having the requisite income/spending ratio to save up a year's expenses is not hard for software engineers (in the US). I second the suggestion of several months to a year of time off, but admittedly it's scary to consider getting a job afterwards, since you'll not have the existing job as leverage and some places will question the gap. Depending on the company it may be possible to "boomerang" back in if your leave is under one year without having to do the interview grind again with them. Unfortunately burnout can take over a year to recover from (if ever 100%), so there's also a reasonable question of whether that extended break is going to be long enough. Maybe OP just needs a month or two, but maybe they'll need a couple years. It's hard to say whether it's better to take a minor break now and then come back until they near the breaking point again, or just power through until they literally can't, saving as much as they can so when they can't they'll have as long as they might need to rest -- which may be longer than if they just stopped now due to the accumulated damage.
  - jrib 5y ago
    I've thought about taking several months between jobs. Having to deal with the health insurance aspect has always felt overly daunting however. Both from the financial aspect and even just the "how do I shop for this thing" perspective.
sulam 5y ago
> No, they will stab you in the back, no matter how much you think they won't. At the end of the day, the business has to do the right thing for the organization, even when that's not to the benefit of an individual in the organization. That said, "the end of the day" is not the beginning. Yes, some people will behave the way you describe. It can be hard to be sure you can trust another human being who you know will be forced to fire you if you can't do the work they hired you to do, at least on a long enough time frame. But not everyone will "stab you in the back", I can promise that.
- foepys 5y ago
  > At the end of the day, the business has to do the right thing for the organization, even when that's not to the benefit of an individual in the organization. How dystopian. When a colleague of mine burned out they talked to their boss and the boss assured them to take as much time as they needed. Then the boss made sure that everybody took as much load off of them as possible so they don't have to worry about projects and other things work related. In the end my colleague was home for about 12 months, then returned to work, and is still working there, just not as many hours. No problems anywhere, everybody is happy. The boss is happy because they have an experienced employee back and the employees that their boss cares about them.
  - sulam 5y ago
    How utopian. I manage a team with hundreds of engineers on it. If I have someone who is taking a year off (with pay I presume), I have to give their work to people. Once enough people do that, I have exhausted the capacity of the team and will surely see the team enter a spiral of burnout that I can only solve by adding dramatically more people or radically reducing our commitments. This will negatively affect our business, potentially putting the entire team's jobs at risk.
    - aprdm 5y ago
      Maybe pitch less work for your team? Set more realistic goals ? Fight for them? Not every business is a startup fighting to survive or grow like hell within a year. Some businesses have been around for decades and are in a comfortable place, they can very easily ramp up or down the amount of work they have to accomplish to keep talent happy. And how can you manage hundreds of engineer?
bastardoperator 5y ago
I had an opposite experience. I went to my manager and described how I felt when I was feeling like OP early in the pandemic. I couldn't tell if it was anxiety, burnout or both. He recommended an immediate two week vacation to clear my head and told me to plan my next vacation for two weeks 6 months out from my last vacation so that there was a constant light at the end of the tunnel. He was empathetic, and explained losing me would be costly and that he wants to avoid that. Had I not spoken up I would have ended up giving up a great job at a great company for what was mostly inside my own head. I also went to my doctor and got anti-anxiety medication and that seemed to help. Now that I no longer had physical manifestations of my issues, and that fact that I was getting feedback that I was valued and that my health mattered, it really calmed me down. If you have decent manager, they want to see you succeed, and they care about your well being. If they don't, bailing from the position is probably in your best interest anyways. Either way, it's an opportunity to see where you stand. Letting go will feel good in the short term, but maybe not so good long term. Doing nothing and hiding it will likely exacerbate the issue. I would say something, I at the very least deserve to be heard. What they do with the details is on them, not you.
- rowathay 5y ago
  This is excellent, it’s great you had this experience. Mine was the opposite: we hired a replacement for my former boss, and at our first 1:1, I told her I was desperately burned out and unable to really accomplish much. She said, you can take vacation after we accomplish some big team goals.
  - bastardoperator 5y ago
    That's certainly better then GTFO. I probably would have tried to establish a rapport first but given the circumstances I can understand why you wanted to confide in new leadership. The good news is she played her cards early and hopefully that gave you enough details or indicators to consider moving on. We've all had bad managers and the best thing we can do as employees is firing them when they treat us less than human. Also, I think success is the best revenge... Hope you're feeling better, sorry you had to deal with that.
  - 5y ago
LaundroMat 5y ago
I took me a while to realize this (at the end of a burnout now, working 2 days a week) but things not being done was and still is a major stressor for me. I am now actively looking for stuff to do that has a clear beginning and end. Give me input, I'll provide the output and go on to the next thing.

by ok_dad 5y ago

gaws 5y ago

> Yes, if possible several months or a year How many positions in 2022 allow one to take several months to a year off and still have a job at the end?

bradenb 5y ago

> > Should I tell my boss and/or team? > No, they will stab you in the back, no matter how much you think they won't. I disagree that this is universally true. I have had at least 2 bosses that I know would help deal with burnout because 1 of them helped me and the other I have seen help others in this same situation. A good boss cares about their employee's health and wants to keep good workers. I agree that your advice is the safe route, but I think if you know for a fact you have one of the good bosses of the world then that approach can lead to better results.

gspr 5y ago
Ditto. Bosses vary. Don't take blanket advice like "the boss is evil". The other part of the advice, namely that your colleagues will backstab you, is even more worrisome. I'd go so far as to say that if you don't have at least some colleagues you can safely tell something like this, then you are in the wrong environment.

l30n4da5 5y ago

> > Should I take time off? How much? > Yes, if possible several months or a year so you have time to get fully away from the grind. I honestly do not know a single person who has the funds saved up to do this.

Jach 5y ago
There are a lot of us. After a six year stint, with my current burn rate (that I expect to decrease later this year) it'd take 20 years for my savings (read index funds) to run out if they didn't grow at all. If you've been working in tech for more than a year and don't have a year's living expenses saved up/invested in liquid assets, you might want to reconsider your spending habits, or your suspiciously low salary (maybe you're not in the US?). Sure exceptions exist and it can be perfectly rational to spend almost everything now for some higher utility, especially if you plan to save later, but having the requisite income/spending ratio to save up a year's expenses is not hard for software engineers (in the US). I second the suggestion of several months to a year of time off, but admittedly it's scary to consider getting a job afterwards, since you'll not have the existing job as leverage and some places will question the gap. Depending on the company it may be possible to "boomerang" back in if your leave is under one year without having to do the interview grind again with them. Unfortunately burnout can take over a year to recover from (if ever 100%), so there's also a reasonable question of whether that extended break is going to be long enough. Maybe OP just needs a month or two, but maybe they'll need a couple years. It's hard to say whether it's better to take a minor break now and then come back until they near the breaking point again, or just power through until they literally can't, saving as much as they can so when they can't they'll have as long as they might need to rest -- which may be longer than if they just stopped now due to the accumulated damage.
- jrib 5y ago
  I've thought about taking several months between jobs. Having to deal with the health insurance aspect has always felt overly daunting however. Both from the financial aspect and even just the "how do I shop for this thing" perspective.

sulam 5y ago

> No, they will stab you in the back, no matter how much you think they won't. At the end of the day, the business has to do the right thing for the organization, even when that's not to the benefit of an individual in the organization. That said, "the end of the day" is not the beginning. Yes, some people will behave the way you describe. It can be hard to be sure you can trust another human being who you know will be forced to fire you if you can't do the work they hired you to do, at least on a long enough time frame. But not everyone will "stab you in the back", I can promise that.

foepys 5y ago
> At the end of the day, the business has to do the right thing for the organization, even when that's not to the benefit of an individual in the organization. How dystopian. When a colleague of mine burned out they talked to their boss and the boss assured them to take as much time as they needed. Then the boss made sure that everybody took as much load off of them as possible so they don't have to worry about projects and other things work related. In the end my colleague was home for about 12 months, then returned to work, and is still working there, just not as many hours. No problems anywhere, everybody is happy. The boss is happy because they have an experienced employee back and the employees that their boss cares about them.
- sulam 5y ago
  How utopian. I manage a team with hundreds of engineers on it. If I have someone who is taking a year off (with pay I presume), I have to give their work to people. Once enough people do that, I have exhausted the capacity of the team and will surely see the team enter a spiral of burnout that I can only solve by adding dramatically more people or radically reducing our commitments. This will negatively affect our business, potentially putting the entire team's jobs at risk.
  - aprdm 5y ago
    Maybe pitch less work for your team? Set more realistic goals ? Fight for them? Not every business is a startup fighting to survive or grow like hell within a year. Some businesses have been around for decades and are in a comfortable place, they can very easily ramp up or down the amount of work they have to accomplish to keep talent happy. And how can you manage hundreds of engineer?

bastardoperator 5y ago

I had an opposite experience. I went to my manager and described how I felt when I was feeling like OP early in the pandemic. I couldn't tell if it was anxiety, burnout or both. He recommended an immediate two week vacation to clear my head and told me to plan my next vacation for two weeks 6 months out from my last vacation so that there was a constant light at the end of the tunnel. He was empathetic, and explained losing me would be costly and that he wants to avoid that. Had I not spoken up I would have ended up giving up a great job at a great company for what was mostly inside my own head. I also went to my doctor and got anti-anxiety medication and that seemed to help. Now that I no longer had physical manifestations of my issues, and that fact that I was getting feedback that I was valued and that my health mattered, it really calmed me down. If you have decent manager, they want to see you succeed, and they care about your well being. If they don't, bailing from the position is probably in your best interest anyways. Either way, it's an opportunity to see where you stand. Letting go will feel good in the short term, but maybe not so good long term. Doing nothing and hiding it will likely exacerbate the issue. I would say something, I at the very least deserve to be heard. What they do with the details is on them, not you.

rowathay 5y ago
This is excellent, it’s great you had this experience. Mine was the opposite: we hired a replacement for my former boss, and at our first 1:1, I told her I was desperately burned out and unable to really accomplish much. She said, you can take vacation after we accomplish some big team goals.
- bastardoperator 5y ago
  That's certainly better then GTFO. I probably would have tried to establish a rapport first but given the circumstances I can understand why you wanted to confide in new leadership. The good news is she played her cards early and hopefully that gave you enough details or indicators to consider moving on. We've all had bad managers and the best thing we can do as employees is firing them when they treat us less than human. Also, I think success is the best revenge... Hope you're feeling better, sorry you had to deal with that.
- 5y ago

LaundroMat 5y ago

I took me a while to realize this (at the end of a burnout now, working 2 days a week) but things not being done was and still is a major stressor for me. I am now actively looking for stuff to do that has a clear beginning and end. Give me input, I'll provide the output and go on to the next thing.