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In my case, because the USA does not have a national ID, and this disenfranchises anyone who is unwilling to pay to get said state ID, or does not have the mean

In my case, because the USA does not have a national ID, and this disenfranchises anyone who is unwilling to pay to get said state ID, or does not have the means to get to an office. I have yet to meet anyone advocating for ID to vote who actually wants to address these by both making said ID free for all Americans and paying for the programs necessary to ensure that every American has easy access to get one. This means everything from busing programs to opening new offices in areas that don't have one to putting people on the street to collect the necessary forms and make sure the homeless get them. Then also making sure you find a way to ensure that the disabled, elderly, or just people who can't kill two hours standing in line have an easy way to vote. Most instead seem to treat that disenfranchisement as acceptable even desired. Truly address the issue of not everyone having an ID and universal access to easy voting (I'm not aware of any lawmakers proposing Voter ID laws attempting to do so) and my objections go away. Then you'll only have to deal with the folks who are against requiring everyone have ID because they worry about turning us into a "Papers Please" kind of society.

anticensor 5y ago
> In my case, because the USA does not have a national ID, Solution: Make the USA passport card free and compulsory.
- mike_d 5y ago
  You can make it free, but you can't make it compulsory. While the constitution allows for a national ID scheme in the sense of making a card and issuing it, actually using it for anything would be near impossible. https://law.bepress.com/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1214&context=expresso https://law.bepress.com/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1214&con...
  - anticensor 5y ago
    There is the Bank ID formula to work around that, at least for the nation state checks: "The Identity Card belongs to the Union, and each Citizen of the Union is obligated to use it as specified in this section of the Code, as enforced by the President of the Union."
- Volundr 5y ago
  > Solution: Make the USA passport card free and compulsory. Great! All that's left is addressing all the challenges I brought up around making obtaining one simple for everyone (no, drive 40 minutes to your nearest post-office doesn't count), and making voting universally easily accessible to everyone and you have my support! Given that as far as I know not a single lawmaker who has been pushing Voter ID has backed your suggestion, much less put any effort into addressing my other concerns, I don't think I'll be supporting Voter ID anytime soon.
- manuelabeledo 5y ago
  > Solution: Make the USA passport card free and compulsory. That would be the ultimate solution, and, as it was mentioned, something that has been proven effective in a very large chunk of the developed world. But having spent the last five years in the US, I think this will trigger the opposition of most conservative pundits, politicians, and attorneys across the country. Ironically, these are the same people who advocate for stringent voter ID laws.
throwntoday 5y ago
The integrity of our vote is much greater than any of the issues you brought up. Every issue you have against a national ID can be solved easily. As many have mentioned the USPS could serve as the backbone with ID cards being printed in kiosks on the spot. The USPS already provides the means for obtaining your passport. It's not clear to me why anyone falls for the rhetoric of ID's suppressing or disenfranchising voters, it's a lot of partisan nonsense. "Someone think of the homeless and disabled elderly, how will they vote" when we all know the reality is they don't.
- Volundr 5y ago
  > The integrity of our vote is much greater than any of the issues you brought up. The integrity of our vote includes ensuring every eligible voter is able to do so without obstacles. As far as I can tell this is currently the primary threat to the integrity of the vote we are facing. > Every issue you have against a national ID can be solved easily. Great let's solve it then! As mentioned actually solve those issues instead of hand waving them away and I'll be pro-voter ID. But as far as I can tell no one is trying to solve them, especially not the people currently pushing voter ID. > As many have mentioned the USPS could serve as the backbone Not everyone has a USPS nearby. Not everyone has a car to drive there. I don't accept denying these people the vote. > "Someone think of the homeless and disabled elderly, how will they vote" when we all know the reality is they don't. Your reality is news to me, and I don't accept that it's okay to make it hard for anyone to vote just because you don't think they want to.
ausername42027 5y ago
> who is unwilling to pay to get said state ID Voting ID's are free in all states they are required. > or does not have the means to get to an office. This could be said for anything...it is funny that the liberal American solution to lack of access to ID offices is to get rid of ID's...not, you know, improve access to said offices (subsidized Ubers that link into an ID appointment, maybe only available every year/whenever you need to renew).
- Volundr 5y ago
  > it is funny that the liberal American solution to lack of access to ID offices is to get rid of ID's...not, you know, improve access to said offices It's funny that the conservative American solution to lack of access to ID offices is just deny them a vote... not, you know, improve access to said offices. Seriously, what do you think the conservative reaction to giving a tech darling like Uber taxpayer money to cart the poor around? I can hardly imagine the backlash. Also why assume I'm a liberal? Not requiring an ID has long big a conservative principal. It's only recently that requiring one has become a republican one. Turns out the world isn't as simple as conservatives vs liberals.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
secabeen 5y ago
There has been some motion on the democratic side towards support for Voter ID that is free, universal, and easy to get: https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/06/21/democrats-voter-id/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/06/21/democrats...
- Volundr 5y ago
  Awesome! I suspect if we had started by making a point to make sure everyone has IDs instead of starting with "let's require IDs knowing full well that some people don't have them" this would've been a minor issue and we could be done already.
  - secabeen 5y ago
    Yeah, the challenge there is that there are loud partisans on both sides of the aisle against national-id based on freedom from government/mark-of-the-beast concerns.
yucky 5y ago
>I have yet to meet anyone advocating for ID to vote who actually wants to address these by both making said ID free for all Americans I've seen the opposite, not a single person who wants voter ID is against making it freely available to those who can't afford it. In fact, voter ID is already required in a number of states, and not only are there free options available in those states (because it would be a poll tax otherwise), but voter ID's in those states have not shown to decrease minority turnout in elections. It's a completely fake issue.
- Volundr 5y ago
  > I've seen the opposite, not a single person who wants voter ID is against making it freely available I have. I've met plenty of people who say if you aren't willing to spend $25 on your ID you don't deserve to vote. But that's really besides the point given that it only addresses one cherry picked issue out of a number I brought up. Doesn't matter if the ID is free if you have to spend 3 hours bussing to and from, waiting in line, and bussing back from getting it. Or if there is no public transit available. Doesn't matter if the ID is free if there is an hour long line because there aren't enough polling places in your area and we've banned mail-in and drop off ballots. Or if you are simply too infirm to make it to said polling place. Or aren't willing to wait in a large crowd of a hundred of your closest strangers I'm the middle of a pandemic. How many of those pushing for voter ID are prepared to spend tax dollars on those issues? Texas certainly isn't. > but voter ID's in those states have not shown to decrease minority turnout in elections. Depends on what studies your looking at https://www.gao.gov/products/gao-14-634 https://www.gao.gov/products/gao-14-634 I suspect you are referring to this one which a number of conservative outlets have been circulating recently: https://www.nber.org/papers/w25522 https://www.nber.org/papers/w25522 They conviently never mentioned that it also found that voter ID had no impact on fraud either. > It's a completely fake issue. Voter ID to prevent election fraud is a fake issue by the same metric. Yet I assume you are genuine. Why can't you extend the same courtesy to me?
  - yucky 5y ago
    You can see Voter ID laws by state - https://ballotpedia.org/Voter_identification_laws_by_state https://ballotpedia.org/Voter_identification_laws_by_state and look at voter turnout. There is no correlation between those laws and turnout, which makes you wonder why people pretend there is...
mbg721 5y ago
I would be very much in favor of a free universal ID that can be used to vote. Then there's no objection, right?
- Volundr 5y ago
  As long as we also address the other concerns in my post. You know ensuring that everyone has easy access to getting that ID (just being free isn't enough it needs to be accessible, as does voting). Now you just have to convince everyone else pushing for voter ID to actually put in the work (and spend the money) to get that done, and we can get this thing rolling! Good luck!
landemva 5y ago
USA does not have national voting, as voting is done in the States. It doesn't need a national ID for that.

anticensor 5y ago

> In my case, because the USA does not have a national ID, Solution: Make the USA passport card free and compulsory.

mike_d 5y ago
You can make it free, but you can't make it compulsory. While the constitution allows for a national ID scheme in the sense of making a card and issuing it, actually using it for anything would be near impossible. https://law.bepress.com/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1214&context=expresso https://law.bepress.com/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1214&con...
- anticensor 5y ago
  There is the Bank ID formula to work around that, at least for the nation state checks: "The Identity Card belongs to the Union, and each Citizen of the Union is obligated to use it as specified in this section of the Code, as enforced by the President of the Union."
Volundr 5y ago
> Solution: Make the USA passport card free and compulsory. Great! All that's left is addressing all the challenges I brought up around making obtaining one simple for everyone (no, drive 40 minutes to your nearest post-office doesn't count), and making voting universally easily accessible to everyone and you have my support! Given that as far as I know not a single lawmaker who has been pushing Voter ID has backed your suggestion, much less put any effort into addressing my other concerns, I don't think I'll be supporting Voter ID anytime soon.
manuelabeledo 5y ago
> Solution: Make the USA passport card free and compulsory. That would be the ultimate solution, and, as it was mentioned, something that has been proven effective in a very large chunk of the developed world. But having spent the last five years in the US, I think this will trigger the opposition of most conservative pundits, politicians, and attorneys across the country. Ironically, these are the same people who advocate for stringent voter ID laws.

throwntoday 5y ago

The integrity of our vote is much greater than any of the issues you brought up. Every issue you have against a national ID can be solved easily. As many have mentioned the USPS could serve as the backbone with ID cards being printed in kiosks on the spot. The USPS already provides the means for obtaining your passport. It's not clear to me why anyone falls for the rhetoric of ID's suppressing or disenfranchising voters, it's a lot of partisan nonsense. "Someone think of the homeless and disabled elderly, how will they vote" when we all know the reality is they don't.

Volundr 5y ago
> The integrity of our vote is much greater than any of the issues you brought up. The integrity of our vote includes ensuring every eligible voter is able to do so without obstacles. As far as I can tell this is currently the primary threat to the integrity of the vote we are facing. > Every issue you have against a national ID can be solved easily. Great let's solve it then! As mentioned actually solve those issues instead of hand waving them away and I'll be pro-voter ID. But as far as I can tell no one is trying to solve them, especially not the people currently pushing voter ID. > As many have mentioned the USPS could serve as the backbone Not everyone has a USPS nearby. Not everyone has a car to drive there. I don't accept denying these people the vote. > "Someone think of the homeless and disabled elderly, how will they vote" when we all know the reality is they don't. Your reality is news to me, and I don't accept that it's okay to make it hard for anyone to vote just because you don't think they want to.

ausername42027 5y ago

> who is unwilling to pay to get said state ID Voting ID's are free in all states they are required. > or does not have the means to get to an office. This could be said for anything...it is funny that the liberal American solution to lack of access to ID offices is to get rid of ID's...not, you know, improve access to said offices (subsidized Ubers that link into an ID appointment, maybe only available every year/whenever you need to renew).

Volundr 5y ago
> it is funny that the liberal American solution to lack of access to ID offices is to get rid of ID's...not, you know, improve access to said offices It's funny that the conservative American solution to lack of access to ID offices is just deny them a vote... not, you know, improve access to said offices. Seriously, what do you think the conservative reaction to giving a tech darling like Uber taxpayer money to cart the poor around? I can hardly imagine the backlash. Also why assume I'm a liberal? Not requiring an ID has long big a conservative principal. It's only recently that requiring one has become a republican one. Turns out the world isn't as simple as conservatives vs liberals.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

secabeen 5y ago

There has been some motion on the democratic side towards support for Voter ID that is free, universal, and easy to get: https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/06/21/democrats-voter-id/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/06/21/democrats...

Volundr 5y ago
Awesome! I suspect if we had started by making a point to make sure everyone has IDs instead of starting with "let's require IDs knowing full well that some people don't have them" this would've been a minor issue and we could be done already.
- secabeen 5y ago
  Yeah, the challenge there is that there are loud partisans on both sides of the aisle against national-id based on freedom from government/mark-of-the-beast concerns.

yucky 5y ago

>I have yet to meet anyone advocating for ID to vote who actually wants to address these by both making said ID free for all Americans I've seen the opposite, not a single person who wants voter ID is against making it freely available to those who can't afford it. In fact, voter ID is already required in a number of states, and not only are there free options available in those states (because it would be a poll tax otherwise), but voter ID's in those states have not shown to decrease minority turnout in elections. It's a completely fake issue.

Volundr 5y ago
> I've seen the opposite, not a single person who wants voter ID is against making it freely available I have. I've met plenty of people who say if you aren't willing to spend $25 on your ID you don't deserve to vote. But that's really besides the point given that it only addresses one cherry picked issue out of a number I brought up. Doesn't matter if the ID is free if you have to spend 3 hours bussing to and from, waiting in line, and bussing back from getting it. Or if there is no public transit available. Doesn't matter if the ID is free if there is an hour long line because there aren't enough polling places in your area and we've banned mail-in and drop off ballots. Or if you are simply too infirm to make it to said polling place. Or aren't willing to wait in a large crowd of a hundred of your closest strangers I'm the middle of a pandemic. How many of those pushing for voter ID are prepared to spend tax dollars on those issues? Texas certainly isn't. > but voter ID's in those states have not shown to decrease minority turnout in elections. Depends on what studies your looking at https://www.gao.gov/products/gao-14-634 https://www.gao.gov/products/gao-14-634 I suspect you are referring to this one which a number of conservative outlets have been circulating recently: https://www.nber.org/papers/w25522 https://www.nber.org/papers/w25522 They conviently never mentioned that it also found that voter ID had no impact on fraud either. > It's a completely fake issue. Voter ID to prevent election fraud is a fake issue by the same metric. Yet I assume you are genuine. Why can't you extend the same courtesy to me?
- yucky 5y ago
  You can see Voter ID laws by state - https://ballotpedia.org/Voter_identification_laws_by_state https://ballotpedia.org/Voter_identification_laws_by_state and look at voter turnout. There is no correlation between those laws and turnout, which makes you wonder why people pretend there is...

mbg721 5y ago

I would be very much in favor of a free universal ID that can be used to vote. Then there's no objection, right?

Volundr 5y ago
As long as we also address the other concerns in my post. You know ensuring that everyone has easy access to getting that ID (just being free isn't enough it needs to be accessible, as does voting). Now you just have to convince everyone else pushing for voter ID to actually put in the work (and spend the money) to get that done, and we can get this thing rolling! Good luck!

landemva 5y ago

USA does not have national voting, as voting is done in the States. It doesn't need a national ID for that.