4 ms·

... but then you realize that Florida with zero state tax also somehow manages to build and maintain the roads.

tshaddox 5y ago
Florida has a statewide sales tax. I assume you mean that Florida has no income tax.
shagie 5y ago
https://www.fdot.gov/docs/default-source/comptroller/pdf/GAO/RevManagement/TransportationFundingSources.pdf https://www.fdot.gov/docs/default-source/comptroller/pdf/GAO... Flrodia's roads are mostly funded from taxes on fuel and motor vehicle fees. Flordia has the 11th highest tax on gas in the nation - https://taxfoundation.org/state-gas-tax-rates-2021/ https://taxfoundation.org/state-gas-tax-rates-2021/ From https://taxfoundation.org/state-infrastructure-spending/ https://taxfoundation.org/state-infrastructure-spending/ State breakdown is 50% from gas taxes, 20% from licensing fees, and 30% from toll roads. Back to the first pdf - 52% of the total funding for the road is from the state, 26% is from federal and the other sources are use turnpike (15%), local (3%), and bonds (4%).
- e4e78a06 5y ago
  I'd rather tax users than have a slush fund that has no accountability because state lawmakers can allocate more money to it whenever they want without regard for the results achieved for the money invested so far. Then if you want more money you have to go to the voters and convince them more taxes on gas are a good idea. Somehow Florida still manages to have, as of writing, $1.50 cheaper gas per gallon than California, so I think they're doing fine with their taxation scheme.
  - shagie 5y ago
    There's a bit of market forces at play there that shouldn't be ignored. Florida is much closer to the refineries and oilfields in the south east than California is and also doesn't have any smog constraints which also means more expensive gas. Then you get into the "some cities in California have other constraints which gets to micro lots of gas and that ruins economies of scale". From a state level tax perspective, Florida is $0.4226/g and California is $0.6698/g.
    - landemva 5y ago
      California has purposefully pushed out manufacturing and energy production. Scored a self-goal there. Edit: can't reply to gas formulation copy/paste below, so ... CA has highest population by far and should be #1 in energy. worldpopulationreview.com Energy is leaving to eastern States where energy can be turned into electricity and delivered to CA via power lines.
      - shagie 5y ago
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petroleum_refining_in_Washington_(state) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petroleum_refining_in_Washingt... > California has the third greatest refining capacity in the U.S. at 1,892,471 barrels per day. > The California Reformulated Gasoline Program requires the entire state to use gasoline with minimal oxygen content that burns cleaner than conventional fuel. A number of other states are either required or opt to use reformulated gasoline in an effort to reduce smog-forming and toxic pollutants. 30 percent of U.S. gasoline is reformulated, however California’s Reformulated Gasoline Program uses a proprietary blend that differs from the federal reformulated standard. While PADD I features ample production capacity for federal reformulated gasoline, the only refineries outside of California capable of producing the blend required by state law are located in Washington and the Gulf Coast. The Gulf Coast refineries haven’t produced reformulated gasoline since 2011 leaving Washington as California’s only out-of-state gasoline source. --- This isn't an issue of pushing out manufacturing and energy production. It's that there is a very limited set of refineries that make it and those refineries aren't near the oil fields of the gulf states. The geography of the area (mountains) make it more challenging and less economical to get a pipeline from somewhere else (Canada?) to the refineries in California. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_oil_and_gas_industry https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_oil_and_gas_industr... also has material on the subject. The relevant reformulation info is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gasoline#Oxygenate_blending https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gasoline#Oxygenate_blending > Oxygenate blending adds oxygen-bearing compounds such as MTBE, ETBE, TAME, TAEE, ethanol, and biobutanol. The presence of these oxygenates reduces the amount of carbon monoxide and unburned fuel in the exhaust. In many areas throughout the U.S., oxygenate blending is mandated by EPA regulations to reduce smog and other airborne pollutants. For example, in Southern California fuel must contain 2% oxygen by weight, resulting in a mixture of 5.6% ethanol in gasoline. The resulting fuel is often known as reformulated gasoline (RFG) or oxygenated gasoline, or in the case of California, California reformulated gasoline. The federal requirement that RFG contain oxygen was dropped on 6 May 2006 because the industry had developed VOC-controlled RFG that did not need additional oxygen.
  - EricDeb 5y ago
    Is accountability your main concern or do you just not want services like unemployment or welfare to exist in the first place?
    - e4e78a06 5y ago
      The original comment was discussing sources of road funding, which is completely unrelated to unemployment or welfare (neither of which I mentioned).
zzzeek 5y ago
they have no personal state income tax. there is still a corporate income tax, and they still get all their revenue from taxes. most if it is from much more regressive kinds of taxation like sales tax.
dahfizz 5y ago
New Hampshire also has no income tax or sales tax, and has infinitely better roads than nearby states like Massachusetts. Roads are not particularly hard or costly to build. If they are a priority, they can be built and maintained without taxing a population to death. If you think its reasonable to lose a third or more of your income to pay for roads, you are a tremendous sucker.

Florida has a statewide sales tax. I assume you mean that Florida has no income tax.

https://www.fdot.gov/docs/default-source/comptroller/pdf/GAO/RevManagement/TransportationFundingSources.pdf https://www.fdot.gov/docs/default-source/comptroller/pdf/GAO... Flrodia's roads are mostly funded from taxes on fuel and motor vehicle fees. Flordia has the 11th highest tax on gas in the nation - https://taxfoundation.org/state-gas-tax-rates-2021/ https://taxfoundation.org/state-gas-tax-rates-2021/ From https://taxfoundation.org/state-infrastructure-spending/ https://taxfoundation.org/state-infrastructure-spending/ State breakdown is 50% from gas taxes, 20% from licensing fees, and 30% from toll roads. Back to the first pdf - 52% of the total funding for the road is from the state, 26% is from federal and the other sources are use turnpike (15%), local (3%), and bonds (4%).

e4e78a06 5y ago
I'd rather tax users than have a slush fund that has no accountability because state lawmakers can allocate more money to it whenever they want without regard for the results achieved for the money invested so far. Then if you want more money you have to go to the voters and convince them more taxes on gas are a good idea. Somehow Florida still manages to have, as of writing, $1.50 cheaper gas per gallon than California, so I think they're doing fine with their taxation scheme.
- shagie 5y ago
  There's a bit of market forces at play there that shouldn't be ignored. Florida is much closer to the refineries and oilfields in the south east than California is and also doesn't have any smog constraints which also means more expensive gas. Then you get into the "some cities in California have other constraints which gets to micro lots of gas and that ruins economies of scale". From a state level tax perspective, Florida is $0.4226/g and California is $0.6698/g.
  - landemva 5y ago
    California has purposefully pushed out manufacturing and energy production. Scored a self-goal there. Edit: can't reply to gas formulation copy/paste below, so ... CA has highest population by far and should be #1 in energy. worldpopulationreview.com Energy is leaving to eastern States where energy can be turned into electricity and delivered to CA via power lines.
    - shagie 5y ago
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petroleum_refining_in_Washington_(state) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petroleum_refining_in_Washingt... > California has the third greatest refining capacity in the U.S. at 1,892,471 barrels per day. > The California Reformulated Gasoline Program requires the entire state to use gasoline with minimal oxygen content that burns cleaner than conventional fuel. A number of other states are either required or opt to use reformulated gasoline in an effort to reduce smog-forming and toxic pollutants. 30 percent of U.S. gasoline is reformulated, however California’s Reformulated Gasoline Program uses a proprietary blend that differs from the federal reformulated standard. While PADD I features ample production capacity for federal reformulated gasoline, the only refineries outside of California capable of producing the blend required by state law are located in Washington and the Gulf Coast. The Gulf Coast refineries haven’t produced reformulated gasoline since 2011 leaving Washington as California’s only out-of-state gasoline source. --- This isn't an issue of pushing out manufacturing and energy production. It's that there is a very limited set of refineries that make it and those refineries aren't near the oil fields of the gulf states. The geography of the area (mountains) make it more challenging and less economical to get a pipeline from somewhere else (Canada?) to the refineries in California. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_oil_and_gas_industry https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_oil_and_gas_industr... also has material on the subject. The relevant reformulation info is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gasoline#Oxygenate_blending https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gasoline#Oxygenate_blending > Oxygenate blending adds oxygen-bearing compounds such as MTBE, ETBE, TAME, TAEE, ethanol, and biobutanol. The presence of these oxygenates reduces the amount of carbon monoxide and unburned fuel in the exhaust. In many areas throughout the U.S., oxygenate blending is mandated by EPA regulations to reduce smog and other airborne pollutants. For example, in Southern California fuel must contain 2% oxygen by weight, resulting in a mixture of 5.6% ethanol in gasoline. The resulting fuel is often known as reformulated gasoline (RFG) or oxygenated gasoline, or in the case of California, California reformulated gasoline. The federal requirement that RFG contain oxygen was dropped on 6 May 2006 because the industry had developed VOC-controlled RFG that did not need additional oxygen.
- EricDeb 5y ago
  Is accountability your main concern or do you just not want services like unemployment or welfare to exist in the first place?
  - e4e78a06 5y ago
    The original comment was discussing sources of road funding, which is completely unrelated to unemployment or welfare (neither of which I mentioned).

zzzeek 5y ago

they have no personal state income tax. there is still a corporate income tax, and they still get all their revenue from taxes. most if it is from much more regressive kinds of taxation like sales tax.

dahfizz 5y ago

New Hampshire also has no income tax or sales tax, and has infinitely better roads than nearby states like Massachusetts. Roads are not particularly hard or costly to build. If they are a priority, they can be built and maintained without taxing a population to death. If you think its reasonable to lose a third or more of your income to pay for roads, you are a tremendous sucker.