4 ms·

Literally everything is a partisan issue including the voting ID. The general argument against it is that proposed valid IDs are not free to obtain, and this wo

Literally everything is a partisan issue including the voting ID. The general argument against it is that proposed valid IDs are not free to obtain, and this would equate to a voting tax which is forbidden in the constitution.

systemvoltage 5y ago
Definitely a partisan issue, but if we look through the fog - why not find the root cause of this argument and make IDs free? It can be done by the states. We can send COVID tests to every American. I am sure issueing IDs (in control of States) would be possible. This way, you can strike down the arguments about the entire Democracy hinging on fake voting and "lost the election" BS. Give Republicans what they want. I don't see any issue with it. Also Democrats need to calm down and realize that it is not that unreasonable to ask people for IDs to avoid duplicate voting. It is not anti-democratic and definitely not doing anything helpful by calling people that want IDs fascists. Election integrity should be so good that it shouldn't have gaping holes like not having a fricking ID.
- Aloha 5y ago
  Rational arguments get lost in the partisan noise. For what its worth, the federal government could make passports (or passport cards) free for every citizen, which would solve the ID requirement. It's something that can be done by presidential fiat even, no laws required, that doesnt solve the issue that the underlying document needed to get any ID cost money, but its a start.
  - Karunamon 5y ago
    They are either completely or almost completely free to get in states already. The usual argument then swaps to how much of a pain in the ass it is to source ID documents and show up in person at the DMV or similar.
    - Aloha 5y ago
      http://sharedprosperityphila.org/documents/Revised-ID-Waiver-Appendices-5.15.15.pdf http://sharedprosperityphila.org/documents/Revised-ID-Waiver... While this is from 2015, this does not appear to be true. Those who do have a free ID, require a time consuming waiver process. Free needs to mean free, "not fill out this stack of paperwork and we'll send it off to the state capitol and see if it'll get approved" Means testing is expensive and time consuming.
    - Bhilai 5y ago
      I moved to a new state last year and to get an ID/DL the first available appointment was 90 days away. The amount of documentation required for the said ID was also less than whats needed for a US passport. Even after an appointment for a specific time, I waited 1.5 hours in the line for my turn. The fee was nominal (for me, $25.) But I can totally see how it can be hard for some people to go through the whole process.
      - simplestats 5y ago
        I don't know that the US is especially worse than other countries when it comes to time and paperwork needed to receive govt services. I have waited in long lines all over the world.
        rootusrootus 5y ago
        This isn't for government services, this is for voting. The kind of people that are prime targets for disenfranchisement are exactly the same people who can least afford to spend a long time in line to vote. And they won't, because the relative value of that vote to them is pretty low, but in aggregate pretty high to the folks who'd like to disenfranchise them to win elections.
    - Volundr 5y ago
      I don't believe that they are free in most states. $25 is a lot for some people. Three hours to take the bus to the DMV, wait in line, and take the bus home is both a reality and time they don't have for some people. Until the voter ID proposals address these issues, they aren't "securing our elections", they are putting arbitrary barriers in place of American's inalienable right to vote. Many of us will never support disenfranchising anyone.
- pstuart 5y ago
  Voting fraud and election fraud are distinctly different things; the former gets all the attention despite the latter being the real concern: https://www.brennancenter.org/sites/default/files/analysis/Briefing_Memo_Debunking_Voter_Fraud_Myth.pdf https://www.brennancenter.org/sites/default/files/analysis/B... One of the 2 parties is more incentivized to discourage voting, and that's worthy of discussion. I am strongly anti-partisan but am compelled to vote in alignment with what I consider to be the least-worst option. It's beyond frustrating to try to discuss these issues without it becoming a tribal war, even here on HN where one would hope for a higher level of discourse.
- tastyfreeze 5y ago
  33 States offer ID card fee waivers. There are 10 States that don't offer waivers but also require photo ID to vote.
moises_silva 5y ago
Make the ids free? I've been out of Mexico for >10yrs but when I became 18 I easily got my voting id in Mexico, free of charge.
- vkou 5y ago
  > Make the ids free? That would be the 'logical' solution, but the party that wants voter ID is not trying to do something logical. It wants to prevent people who don't currently have it from voting. So they demand ID, without making it possible/easier to get. (And when they do make it possible/easier to get, its only in their political strongholds - or they explicitly disqualify particular kinds of state-issued ID from being used to vote.) Selective disenfranchisement is the whole point of the policy, not an unfortunate, unforeseen, unpredictable side effect. If you'd like to learn more about the history of this, the Civil War, Reconstruction, and Jim Crow are a good primer on the motivations behind it. Those motivations haven't gone anywhere, because the cultural struggle in question has never actually been resolved.
  - dahfizz 5y ago
    > but the party that wants voter ID is not trying to do something logical. If the opposing party wanted to be logical, they would just make IDs free and easy. Especially while they are running the government.
    - vkou 5y ago
      1. They don't really get to run the government in the states where this is an issue. 2. Once in a blue moon, they do. But anything they build to enable this requires constant funding and maintenance. Their opponents either dismantle it when they take power, or retroactively disqualify existing IDs from being eligible for voting. It's not, and has never been about IDs. It's about disenfranchisement.
      - dahfizz 5y ago
        I agree that the current Republican approach is about disenfranchisement. However, voter ID itself is a completely reasonable thing. This issue will never go away. The most logical thing for Democrats to do is to enact voter ID the right way so as to remove this as a tool from the Republicans' arsenal. "Republicans may implement voter ID improperly, so we must never ever verify that the people casting votes are doing so legally" is an insane position, honestly. An obvious first step would be to make getting a passport easier and free, though I am not sure if the federal government can compel states to accept a passport as identification.
notsureaboutpg 5y ago

systemvoltage 5y ago

Definitely a partisan issue, but if we look through the fog - why not find the root cause of this argument and make IDs free? It can be done by the states. We can send COVID tests to every American. I am sure issueing IDs (in control of States) would be possible. This way, you can strike down the arguments about the entire Democracy hinging on fake voting and "lost the election" BS. Give Republicans what they want. I don't see any issue with it. Also Democrats need to calm down and realize that it is not that unreasonable to ask people for IDs to avoid duplicate voting. It is not anti-democratic and definitely not doing anything helpful by calling people that want IDs fascists. Election integrity should be so good that it shouldn't have gaping holes like not having a fricking ID.

Aloha 5y ago
Rational arguments get lost in the partisan noise. For what its worth, the federal government could make passports (or passport cards) free for every citizen, which would solve the ID requirement. It's something that can be done by presidential fiat even, no laws required, that doesnt solve the issue that the underlying document needed to get any ID cost money, but its a start.
- Karunamon 5y ago
  They are either completely or almost completely free to get in states already. The usual argument then swaps to how much of a pain in the ass it is to source ID documents and show up in person at the DMV or similar.
  - Aloha 5y ago
    http://sharedprosperityphila.org/documents/Revised-ID-Waiver-Appendices-5.15.15.pdf http://sharedprosperityphila.org/documents/Revised-ID-Waiver... While this is from 2015, this does not appear to be true. Those who do have a free ID, require a time consuming waiver process. Free needs to mean free, "not fill out this stack of paperwork and we'll send it off to the state capitol and see if it'll get approved" Means testing is expensive and time consuming.
  - Bhilai 5y ago
    I moved to a new state last year and to get an ID/DL the first available appointment was 90 days away. The amount of documentation required for the said ID was also less than whats needed for a US passport. Even after an appointment for a specific time, I waited 1.5 hours in the line for my turn. The fee was nominal (for me, $25.) But I can totally see how it can be hard for some people to go through the whole process.
    - simplestats 5y ago
      I don't know that the US is especially worse than other countries when it comes to time and paperwork needed to receive govt services. I have waited in long lines all over the world.
      - rootusrootus 5y ago
        This isn't for government services, this is for voting. The kind of people that are prime targets for disenfranchisement are exactly the same people who can least afford to spend a long time in line to vote. And they won't, because the relative value of that vote to them is pretty low, but in aggregate pretty high to the folks who'd like to disenfranchise them to win elections.
  - Volundr 5y ago
    I don't believe that they are free in most states. $25 is a lot for some people. Three hours to take the bus to the DMV, wait in line, and take the bus home is both a reality and time they don't have for some people. Until the voter ID proposals address these issues, they aren't "securing our elections", they are putting arbitrary barriers in place of American's inalienable right to vote. Many of us will never support disenfranchising anyone.
pstuart 5y ago
Voting fraud and election fraud are distinctly different things; the former gets all the attention despite the latter being the real concern: https://www.brennancenter.org/sites/default/files/analysis/Briefing_Memo_Debunking_Voter_Fraud_Myth.pdf https://www.brennancenter.org/sites/default/files/analysis/B... One of the 2 parties is more incentivized to discourage voting, and that's worthy of discussion. I am strongly anti-partisan but am compelled to vote in alignment with what I consider to be the least-worst option. It's beyond frustrating to try to discuss these issues without it becoming a tribal war, even here on HN where one would hope for a higher level of discourse.
tastyfreeze 5y ago
33 States offer ID card fee waivers. There are 10 States that don't offer waivers but also require photo ID to vote.

moises_silva 5y ago

Make the ids free? I've been out of Mexico for >10yrs but when I became 18 I easily got my voting id in Mexico, free of charge.

vkou 5y ago
> Make the ids free? That would be the 'logical' solution, but the party that wants voter ID is not trying to do something logical. It wants to prevent people who don't currently have it from voting. So they demand ID, without making it possible/easier to get. (And when they do make it possible/easier to get, its only in their political strongholds - or they explicitly disqualify particular kinds of state-issued ID from being used to vote.) Selective disenfranchisement is the whole point of the policy, not an unfortunate, unforeseen, unpredictable side effect. If you'd like to learn more about the history of this, the Civil War, Reconstruction, and Jim Crow are a good primer on the motivations behind it. Those motivations haven't gone anywhere, because the cultural struggle in question has never actually been resolved.
- dahfizz 5y ago
  > but the party that wants voter ID is not trying to do something logical. If the opposing party wanted to be logical, they would just make IDs free and easy. Especially while they are running the government.
  - vkou 5y ago
    1. They don't really get to run the government in the states where this is an issue. 2. Once in a blue moon, they do. But anything they build to enable this requires constant funding and maintenance. Their opponents either dismantle it when they take power, or retroactively disqualify existing IDs from being eligible for voting. It's not, and has never been about IDs. It's about disenfranchisement.
    - dahfizz 5y ago
      I agree that the current Republican approach is about disenfranchisement. However, voter ID itself is a completely reasonable thing. This issue will never go away. The most logical thing for Democrats to do is to enact voter ID the right way so as to remove this as a tool from the Republicans' arsenal. "Republicans may implement voter ID improperly, so we must never ever verify that the people casting votes are doing so legally" is an insane position, honestly. An obvious first step would be to make getting a passport easier and free, though I am not sure if the federal government can compel states to accept a passport as identification.

notsureaboutpg 5y ago