4 ms·

Build (some) and maintain (most) roads?

by bagels 5y ago

trimbo 5y ago
That's ~5% of the state budget, and primarily financed by the gas tax, not the income tax. (Large projects funded with bonds) Source: https://dot.ca.gov/-/media/dot-media/programs/research-innovation-system-information/documents/caltrans-fact-booklets/2021-caltrans-facts-a11y.pdf https://dot.ca.gov/-/media/dot-media/programs/research-innov...
- lotsofpulp 5y ago
  There is no purpose to delineating government revenues since money is fungible. Even though legislators might label or apportion some source of tax to some specific expense, in reality, they can always move it elsewhere (since they are the legislators). Therefore, it is always a question of which expense has political priority.
  - kansface 5y ago
    I thought the problem with CA was that the state budget isn't fungible - 90%+ of the money is allocated via ballot measures or the state constitution and can't be touched by the legislature.
    - lotsofpulp 5y ago
      I do not know enough about CA budget's mechanics, but that would seem like a very inefficient and ineffective way to operate a state.
      - shagie 5y ago
        https://www.budgetchallenge.org/pages/home https://www.budgetchallenge.org/pages/home gets you an idea of the challenge that they have.
AlexTWithBeard 5y ago
... but then you realize that Florida with zero state tax also somehow manages to build and maintain the roads.
- tshaddox 5y ago
  Florida has a statewide sales tax. I assume you mean that Florida has no income tax.
- shagie 5y ago
  https://www.fdot.gov/docs/default-source/comptroller/pdf/GAO/RevManagement/TransportationFundingSources.pdf https://www.fdot.gov/docs/default-source/comptroller/pdf/GAO... Flrodia's roads are mostly funded from taxes on fuel and motor vehicle fees. Flordia has the 11th highest tax on gas in the nation - https://taxfoundation.org/state-gas-tax-rates-2021/ https://taxfoundation.org/state-gas-tax-rates-2021/ From https://taxfoundation.org/state-infrastructure-spending/ https://taxfoundation.org/state-infrastructure-spending/ State breakdown is 50% from gas taxes, 20% from licensing fees, and 30% from toll roads. Back to the first pdf - 52% of the total funding for the road is from the state, 26% is from federal and the other sources are use turnpike (15%), local (3%), and bonds (4%).
  - e4e78a06 5y ago
    I'd rather tax users than have a slush fund that has no accountability because state lawmakers can allocate more money to it whenever they want without regard for the results achieved for the money invested so far. Then if you want more money you have to go to the voters and convince them more taxes on gas are a good idea. Somehow Florida still manages to have, as of writing, $1.50 cheaper gas per gallon than California, so I think they're doing fine with their taxation scheme.
    - shagie 5y ago
      There's a bit of market forces at play there that shouldn't be ignored. Florida is much closer to the refineries and oilfields in the south east than California is and also doesn't have any smog constraints which also means more expensive gas. Then you get into the "some cities in California have other constraints which gets to micro lots of gas and that ruins economies of scale". From a state level tax perspective, Florida is $0.4226/g and California is $0.6698/g.
sokoloff 5y ago
and the aqueducts, sanitation, education, and the wine…

Build (some) and maintain (most) roads?

by bagels 5y ago

Build (some) and maintain (most) roads?

That's ~5% of the state budget, and primarily financed by the gas tax, not the income tax. (Large projects funded with bonds) Source: https://dot.ca.gov/-/media/dot-media/programs/research-innovation-system-information/documents/caltrans-fact-booklets/2021-caltrans-facts-a11y.pdf https://dot.ca.gov/-/media/dot-media/programs/research-innov...

lotsofpulp 5y ago
There is no purpose to delineating government revenues since money is fungible. Even though legislators might label or apportion some source of tax to some specific expense, in reality, they can always move it elsewhere (since they are the legislators). Therefore, it is always a question of which expense has political priority.
- kansface 5y ago
  I thought the problem with CA was that the state budget isn't fungible - 90%+ of the money is allocated via ballot measures or the state constitution and can't be touched by the legislature.
  - lotsofpulp 5y ago
    I do not know enough about CA budget's mechanics, but that would seem like a very inefficient and ineffective way to operate a state.
    - shagie 5y ago
      https://www.budgetchallenge.org/pages/home https://www.budgetchallenge.org/pages/home gets you an idea of the challenge that they have.

AlexTWithBeard 5y ago

... but then you realize that Florida with zero state tax also somehow manages to build and maintain the roads.

tshaddox 5y ago
Florida has a statewide sales tax. I assume you mean that Florida has no income tax.
shagie 5y ago
https://www.fdot.gov/docs/default-source/comptroller/pdf/GAO/RevManagement/TransportationFundingSources.pdf https://www.fdot.gov/docs/default-source/comptroller/pdf/GAO... Flrodia's roads are mostly funded from taxes on fuel and motor vehicle fees. Flordia has the 11th highest tax on gas in the nation - https://taxfoundation.org/state-gas-tax-rates-2021/ https://taxfoundation.org/state-gas-tax-rates-2021/ From https://taxfoundation.org/state-infrastructure-spending/ https://taxfoundation.org/state-infrastructure-spending/ State breakdown is 50% from gas taxes, 20% from licensing fees, and 30% from toll roads. Back to the first pdf - 52% of the total funding for the road is from the state, 26% is from federal and the other sources are use turnpike (15%), local (3%), and bonds (4%).
- e4e78a06 5y ago
  I'd rather tax users than have a slush fund that has no accountability because state lawmakers can allocate more money to it whenever they want without regard for the results achieved for the money invested so far. Then if you want more money you have to go to the voters and convince them more taxes on gas are a good idea. Somehow Florida still manages to have, as of writing, $1.50 cheaper gas per gallon than California, so I think they're doing fine with their taxation scheme.
  - shagie 5y ago
    There's a bit of market forces at play there that shouldn't be ignored. Florida is much closer to the refineries and oilfields in the south east than California is and also doesn't have any smog constraints which also means more expensive gas. Then you get into the "some cities in California have other constraints which gets to micro lots of gas and that ruins economies of scale". From a state level tax perspective, Florida is $0.4226/g and California is $0.6698/g.

sokoloff 5y ago

and the aqueducts, sanitation, education, and the wine…