12 ms·

Californian here. Name one thing the state government does for normal people who actually finance the largess. Are you really surprised billions go unaccounted

Californian here. Name one thing the state government does for normal people who actually finance the largess. Are you really surprised billions go unaccounted in a place where train robberies are a thing? But don't you worry, a photo ID won't be required in the next election though.

bagels 5y ago
Build (some) and maintain (most) roads?
- trimbo 5y ago
  That's ~5% of the state budget, and primarily financed by the gas tax, not the income tax. (Large projects funded with bonds) Source: https://dot.ca.gov/-/media/dot-media/programs/research-innovation-system-information/documents/caltrans-fact-booklets/2021-caltrans-facts-a11y.pdf https://dot.ca.gov/-/media/dot-media/programs/research-innov...
  - lotsofpulp 5y ago
    There is no purpose to delineating government revenues since money is fungible. Even though legislators might label or apportion some source of tax to some specific expense, in reality, they can always move it elsewhere (since they are the legislators). Therefore, it is always a question of which expense has political priority.
    - kansface 5y ago
      I thought the problem with CA was that the state budget isn't fungible - 90%+ of the money is allocated via ballot measures or the state constitution and can't be touched by the legislature.
      - lotsofpulp 5y ago
        I do not know enough about CA budget's mechanics, but that would seem like a very inefficient and ineffective way to operate a state.
        shagie 5y ago
        https://www.budgetchallenge.org/pages/home https://www.budgetchallenge.org/pages/home gets you an idea of the challenge that they have.
- AlexTWithBeard 5y ago
  ... but then you realize that Florida with zero state tax also somehow manages to build and maintain the roads.
  - tshaddox 5y ago
    Florida has a statewide sales tax. I assume you mean that Florida has no income tax.
  - shagie 5y ago
    https://www.fdot.gov/docs/default-source/comptroller/pdf/GAO/RevManagement/TransportationFundingSources.pdf https://www.fdot.gov/docs/default-source/comptroller/pdf/GAO... Flrodia's roads are mostly funded from taxes on fuel and motor vehicle fees. Flordia has the 11th highest tax on gas in the nation - https://taxfoundation.org/state-gas-tax-rates-2021/ https://taxfoundation.org/state-gas-tax-rates-2021/ From https://taxfoundation.org/state-infrastructure-spending/ https://taxfoundation.org/state-infrastructure-spending/ State breakdown is 50% from gas taxes, 20% from licensing fees, and 30% from toll roads. Back to the first pdf - 52% of the total funding for the road is from the state, 26% is from federal and the other sources are use turnpike (15%), local (3%), and bonds (4%).
    - e4e78a06 5y ago
      I'd rather tax users than have a slush fund that has no accountability because state lawmakers can allocate more money to it whenever they want without regard for the results achieved for the money invested so far. Then if you want more money you have to go to the voters and convince them more taxes on gas are a good idea. Somehow Florida still manages to have, as of writing, $1.50 cheaper gas per gallon than California, so I think they're doing fine with their taxation scheme.
      - shagie 5y ago
        There's a bit of market forces at play there that shouldn't be ignored. Florida is much closer to the refineries and oilfields in the south east than California is and also doesn't have any smog constraints which also means more expensive gas. Then you get into the "some cities in California have other constraints which gets to micro lots of gas and that ruins economies of scale". From a state level tax perspective, Florida is $0.4226/g and California is $0.6698/g.
- sokoloff 5y ago
  and the aqueducts, sanitation, education, and the wine…
systemvoltage 5y ago
Why are people honestly against ID requirements for voting? Pretty much every democracy in the world has this. Europeans need to show ID to vote.
- PaulDavisThe1st 5y ago
  Because there is no mandated form of ID in the USA (and it was fought against for decades by conservatives claiming it represented unwarranted overreach by the state). As a result, actually obtaining some form of ID that might be acceptable (the forms vary mostly depending on the political party that writes the rules) can present a significant challenge to some voters, and for some of us, that is an anathema (the right to vote being sacred, certainly compared with the right to drive for example). Introduced a national ID that the government is OBLIGATED TO PROVIDE for every person, and many of the arguments against it would go away. Currently, no state in the US, nor the federal government, has such a form of ID.
  - throwawayboise 5y ago
    Voting is a state concern. It doesn't matter that there is no Federal standard. Every state that has Voter ID will have some form of acceptable ID card that you can get, even if you don't drive.
    - PaulDavisThe1st 5y ago
      I said "government" and mentioned both state and federal. The point is that there is no ID required in any state. Voter ID cards are not the obligation of the government to provide - voters much take the steps to procure them. The right to vote precedes and predates such a requirement - if the state wants to impose it, that's fine but it should come with the obligation upon the state government to provide the ID, not a requirement to procure it.
    - acdha 5y ago
      And getting that will cost money, often requires traveling non-trivial distances (note the demographics of the areas where state offices are opened or closed, and viability of public transit), and requires proof of residency / identity which can be hard for some people to satisfy (there are plenty of people who’ve hit issues about things like maiden names, being able to prove continuous proof of residence when they e.g. weren’t on a lease or other legal document, etc.). I still think ID is good but it really needs to be paired with a robust improvement in making the system of getting ID work better. If we’re requiring it, the government should be required to provide it for free and meet a legal standard of proof for denial.
WesternWind 5y ago
[dead]
Justin_K 5y ago
I'm sure they'll run a single payer healthcare system just fine.
- iso1210 5y ago
  You'd have to be very good to run a system worse than the US
- nitwit005 5y ago
  Our expectations are so low that they'll manage to meet them.
theandrewbailey 5y ago
Excuse me, can I see your vaccine card so you can enter this store/restaurant/theater/polling place/etc.? Minorities, Blacks in particular, have lower vaccination rates than whites. Ever heard of the Tuskegee experiment? Who can blame them? Given vaccine rates by demographic, it seems like many places are hell bent on introducing racist vaccine passport policies. I thought we weren't supposed to do stuff like that anymore.
- tastyfreeze 5y ago
  I dont agree with vaccine passports at all. But, if vaccine passports are required, minorities having a lower vaccination rate by choice does not make vaccine passports racist. Enough with the disparate impact BS when the policy is the same for all people across the board. The only thing that vaccine passport requirements are discriminating against are unvaccinated people. Skin color has nothing to do with it.

bagels 5y ago

Build (some) and maintain (most) roads?

trimbo 5y ago
That's ~5% of the state budget, and primarily financed by the gas tax, not the income tax. (Large projects funded with bonds) Source: https://dot.ca.gov/-/media/dot-media/programs/research-innovation-system-information/documents/caltrans-fact-booklets/2021-caltrans-facts-a11y.pdf https://dot.ca.gov/-/media/dot-media/programs/research-innov...
- lotsofpulp 5y ago
  There is no purpose to delineating government revenues since money is fungible. Even though legislators might label or apportion some source of tax to some specific expense, in reality, they can always move it elsewhere (since they are the legislators). Therefore, it is always a question of which expense has political priority.
  - kansface 5y ago
    I thought the problem with CA was that the state budget isn't fungible - 90%+ of the money is allocated via ballot measures or the state constitution and can't be touched by the legislature.
    - lotsofpulp 5y ago
      I do not know enough about CA budget's mechanics, but that would seem like a very inefficient and ineffective way to operate a state.
      - shagie 5y ago
        https://www.budgetchallenge.org/pages/home https://www.budgetchallenge.org/pages/home gets you an idea of the challenge that they have.
AlexTWithBeard 5y ago
... but then you realize that Florida with zero state tax also somehow manages to build and maintain the roads.
- tshaddox 5y ago
  Florida has a statewide sales tax. I assume you mean that Florida has no income tax.
- shagie 5y ago
  https://www.fdot.gov/docs/default-source/comptroller/pdf/GAO/RevManagement/TransportationFundingSources.pdf https://www.fdot.gov/docs/default-source/comptroller/pdf/GAO... Flrodia's roads are mostly funded from taxes on fuel and motor vehicle fees. Flordia has the 11th highest tax on gas in the nation - https://taxfoundation.org/state-gas-tax-rates-2021/ https://taxfoundation.org/state-gas-tax-rates-2021/ From https://taxfoundation.org/state-infrastructure-spending/ https://taxfoundation.org/state-infrastructure-spending/ State breakdown is 50% from gas taxes, 20% from licensing fees, and 30% from toll roads. Back to the first pdf - 52% of the total funding for the road is from the state, 26% is from federal and the other sources are use turnpike (15%), local (3%), and bonds (4%).
  - e4e78a06 5y ago
    I'd rather tax users than have a slush fund that has no accountability because state lawmakers can allocate more money to it whenever they want without regard for the results achieved for the money invested so far. Then if you want more money you have to go to the voters and convince them more taxes on gas are a good idea. Somehow Florida still manages to have, as of writing, $1.50 cheaper gas per gallon than California, so I think they're doing fine with their taxation scheme.
    - shagie 5y ago
      There's a bit of market forces at play there that shouldn't be ignored. Florida is much closer to the refineries and oilfields in the south east than California is and also doesn't have any smog constraints which also means more expensive gas. Then you get into the "some cities in California have other constraints which gets to micro lots of gas and that ruins economies of scale". From a state level tax perspective, Florida is $0.4226/g and California is $0.6698/g.
sokoloff 5y ago
and the aqueducts, sanitation, education, and the wine…

systemvoltage 5y ago

Why are people honestly against ID requirements for voting? Pretty much every democracy in the world has this. Europeans need to show ID to vote.

PaulDavisThe1st 5y ago
Because there is no mandated form of ID in the USA (and it was fought against for decades by conservatives claiming it represented unwarranted overreach by the state). As a result, actually obtaining some form of ID that might be acceptable (the forms vary mostly depending on the political party that writes the rules) can present a significant challenge to some voters, and for some of us, that is an anathema (the right to vote being sacred, certainly compared with the right to drive for example). Introduced a national ID that the government is OBLIGATED TO PROVIDE for every person, and many of the arguments against it would go away. Currently, no state in the US, nor the federal government, has such a form of ID.
- throwawayboise 5y ago
  Voting is a state concern. It doesn't matter that there is no Federal standard. Every state that has Voter ID will have some form of acceptable ID card that you can get, even if you don't drive.
  - PaulDavisThe1st 5y ago
    I said "government" and mentioned both state and federal. The point is that there is no ID required in any state. Voter ID cards are not the obligation of the government to provide - voters much take the steps to procure them. The right to vote precedes and predates such a requirement - if the state wants to impose it, that's fine but it should come with the obligation upon the state government to provide the ID, not a requirement to procure it.
  - acdha 5y ago
    And getting that will cost money, often requires traveling non-trivial distances (note the demographics of the areas where state offices are opened or closed, and viability of public transit), and requires proof of residency / identity which can be hard for some people to satisfy (there are plenty of people who’ve hit issues about things like maiden names, being able to prove continuous proof of residence when they e.g. weren’t on a lease or other legal document, etc.). I still think ID is good but it really needs to be paired with a robust improvement in making the system of getting ID work better. If we’re requiring it, the government should be required to provide it for free and meet a legal standard of proof for denial.

WesternWind 5y ago

[dead]

Justin_K 5y ago

I'm sure they'll run a single payer healthcare system just fine.

iso1210 5y ago
You'd have to be very good to run a system worse than the US
nitwit005 5y ago
Our expectations are so low that they'll manage to meet them.

theandrewbailey 5y ago

Excuse me, can I see your vaccine card so you can enter this store/restaurant/theater/polling place/etc.? Minorities, Blacks in particular, have lower vaccination rates than whites. Ever heard of the Tuskegee experiment? Who can blame them? Given vaccine rates by demographic, it seems like many places are hell bent on introducing racist vaccine passport policies. I thought we weren't supposed to do stuff like that anymore.

tastyfreeze 5y ago
I dont agree with vaccine passports at all. But, if vaccine passports are required, minorities having a lower vaccination rate by choice does not make vaccine passports racist. Enough with the disparate impact BS when the policy is the same for all people across the board. The only thing that vaccine passport requirements are discriminating against are unvaccinated people. Skin color has nothing to do with it.