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I am honestly curious how an administration that is sooo against voter ID squares it hypocrisy with things like this, or other ID based initiatives designed to

by syshum 5y ago

I am honestly curious how an administration that is sooo against voter ID squares it hypocrisy with things like this, or other ID based initiatives designed to secure these institutions but ID requirements to secure voting is viewed as racist or other "threat to democracy" If Secure ID is needed to access IRS, or for proof of vaccination I fail to see why is not needed for voting...

AnimalMuppet 5y ago
Absolutely. On the other hand, the other side is just as cynically hypocritical, just in the opposite directions.
dhosek 5y ago
The problem is that ID access is far from equitable and the burden it raises is way out of proportion to the claimed problem (if you think about it, in-person voter fraud has a huge risk component and a tiny reward). Voting is the most fundamental right in a democracy so restricting that needs to be well justified. Most people on the left would happily accept a free universal federal ID program (with appropriate safeguards to ensure equity of access) but conservatives oppose this.
- syshum 5y ago
  Federal ID program would be opposed on the grounds of Federalism. rightly so. ID should be left to the states not the Federal government. We are a federalist nation for a reason, people on the left do not support federalism, conservatives do, that is why they oppose that. >The problem is that ID access is far from equitable But is that not true for everything else as well, thus my question, if getting an ID is soo burdensome (which I do not believe it is) why is it OK to demand it for all of these other requirements the federal government places on people (like paying taxes) but not ok for voting. Simply saying "ID is not equitable" does not resolve the question
joshstrange 5y ago
Make a secure ID free and easily to get access to and voter ID concern melts away. Don't pretend that there is no barrier to getting an ID.
- syshum 5y ago
  Every single state that has a voter ID law, as a Free ID for the purposes of voting that can be easily obtained. It is false to claim other wise
  - joshstrange 5y ago
    “Easily be obtained” Doubtful. Not only do they take time (time off from job, time for travel) but they require certain documents which you may or may not have. Even if said documents are free to re-obtain (think SS card or birth certificate) it still takes time and energy to track down. Time is not free. Voting is a right, barriers to it are not ok. In-person voter fraud is practically non-existent and we catch most all who do it. It’s a solution in search of a problem that doesn’t exist essentially.
    - syshum 5y ago
      >In-person voter fraud Aside from the fact we are moving away from in-person voting, and mailin voting is far less secure to the point where many other nations do not do it. The claim the there is no fraud is has many many problems and based on a huge amount of assumption. There is very little actual transparency, there is the appearance of transparency, but any time anyone asks any questions is a response of "HOW DARE YOU QUESTION THE ELECTION", the election is secure because we said it was secure is not a valid position. nor is the position of "well show me the fraud" because the average person lacks the legal standing to actually investigate anything. Instead we have a system of "we investigated ourselves and found we did nothing wrong" The same people that accept this from the election boards, do not accept this from the police... which is another example of political hypocrisy
      - EricDeb 5y ago
feoren 5y ago
I'd guess (A) Voter ID laws are transparently intentionally designed to inconvenience as many liberal voters and as few conservative voters as possible, and (B) there is no other way to vote if you can't get a voter ID, but there is another way to pay your taxes without this online access. Not defending this decision though; this is a bizarre requirement. Is this more regulatory capture by Intuit / TurboTax?
300bps 5y ago
My favorite video on this topic: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yW2LpFkVfYk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yW2LpFkVfYk They first go to Berkeley, California and ask a bunch of white people their thoughts on voter idea laws. "They're racist, african americans don't know where the DMV is, don't have access to the Internet" type of answers. Then they go to Harlem and ask people's thoughts on it.
dogleash 5y ago
>I am honestly curious how an administration that is sooo against voter ID They're not against voter ID on principal. They're against it as a marketing tactic. I don't mean to sound cynical or conspiratorial, that's just campaigning. It's the dems in this case, but the following also applies to the repubs: neither are against an intrusive or abusive government. They're actively for it. The only thing that tempers their appetite is remaining electable.

by syshum 5y ago

AnimalMuppet 5y ago

Absolutely. On the other hand, the other side is just as cynically hypocritical, just in the opposite directions.

dhosek 5y ago

The problem is that ID access is far from equitable and the burden it raises is way out of proportion to the claimed problem (if you think about it, in-person voter fraud has a huge risk component and a tiny reward). Voting is the most fundamental right in a democracy so restricting that needs to be well justified. Most people on the left would happily accept a free universal federal ID program (with appropriate safeguards to ensure equity of access) but conservatives oppose this.

syshum 5y ago
Federal ID program would be opposed on the grounds of Federalism. rightly so. ID should be left to the states not the Federal government. We are a federalist nation for a reason, people on the left do not support federalism, conservatives do, that is why they oppose that. >The problem is that ID access is far from equitable But is that not true for everything else as well, thus my question, if getting an ID is soo burdensome (which I do not believe it is) why is it OK to demand it for all of these other requirements the federal government places on people (like paying taxes) but not ok for voting. Simply saying "ID is not equitable" does not resolve the question

joshstrange 5y ago

Make a secure ID free and easily to get access to and voter ID concern melts away. Don't pretend that there is no barrier to getting an ID.

syshum 5y ago
Every single state that has a voter ID law, as a Free ID for the purposes of voting that can be easily obtained. It is false to claim other wise
- joshstrange 5y ago
  “Easily be obtained” Doubtful. Not only do they take time (time off from job, time for travel) but they require certain documents which you may or may not have. Even if said documents are free to re-obtain (think SS card or birth certificate) it still takes time and energy to track down. Time is not free. Voting is a right, barriers to it are not ok. In-person voter fraud is practically non-existent and we catch most all who do it. It’s a solution in search of a problem that doesn’t exist essentially.
  - syshum 5y ago
    >In-person voter fraud Aside from the fact we are moving away from in-person voting, and mailin voting is far less secure to the point where many other nations do not do it. The claim the there is no fraud is has many many problems and based on a huge amount of assumption. There is very little actual transparency, there is the appearance of transparency, but any time anyone asks any questions is a response of "HOW DARE YOU QUESTION THE ELECTION", the election is secure because we said it was secure is not a valid position. nor is the position of "well show me the fraud" because the average person lacks the legal standing to actually investigate anything. Instead we have a system of "we investigated ourselves and found we did nothing wrong" The same people that accept this from the election boards, do not accept this from the police... which is another example of political hypocrisy
    - EricDeb 5y ago

feoren 5y ago

I'd guess (A) Voter ID laws are transparently intentionally designed to inconvenience as many liberal voters and as few conservative voters as possible, and (B) there is no other way to vote if you can't get a voter ID, but there is another way to pay your taxes without this online access. Not defending this decision though; this is a bizarre requirement. Is this more regulatory capture by Intuit / TurboTax?

300bps 5y ago

My favorite video on this topic: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yW2LpFkVfYk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yW2LpFkVfYk They first go to Berkeley, California and ask a bunch of white people their thoughts on voter idea laws. "They're racist, african americans don't know where the DMV is, don't have access to the Internet" type of answers. Then they go to Harlem and ask people's thoughts on it.

dogleash 5y ago

>I am honestly curious how an administration that is sooo against voter ID They're not against voter ID on principal. They're against it as a marketing tactic. I don't mean to sound cynical or conspiratorial, that's just campaigning. It's the dems in this case, but the following also applies to the repubs: neither are against an intrusive or abusive government. They're actively for it. The only thing that tempers their appetite is remaining electable.