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In Austria (and I think in Germany it's the same), for most jobs, including IT, employees must track their working time for legal reasons, so I had to clock in

In Austria (and I think in Germany it's the same), for most jobs, including IT, employees must track their working time for legal reasons, so I had to clock in and out via a device at the entrance like a factory worker, to prove to HR, accounting and the bureaucratic government institutions in charge of taxing me, that I'm indeed at my workplace 8h/day. One company I interviewed at had a work-time time tracking machine next to the coffee machine as breaks were not included in the working time. I said no thanks to that job but it's quite common in Austria at more traditional companies who insist you're only productive while your butt is in the chair. Thanks Covid for the disruption but it's a massive shame it took a global tragedy for companies and governments to realize people working in tech and other sectors can be just as productive without needing to commute somewhere else just so they can keep a seat warm for 8h/day.

phillc73 5y ago
I can confirm this is the case in Austria. However, my experience is mostly using a computerised system via the company Intranet. There's an option to use an access card and touch it to a login pad at the office entrance, but I can also work from home, logging the time via the Intranet based system. I don't get paid overtime, but I do receive time off in lieu of excess hours worked.
b112 5y ago
for companies and governments to realize people working in tech and other sectors can be just as productive It may seem this way, but the conditions allowing this situation still exist. I assure you, large swaths of people will be called back to the office ASAP. And many non-IT/computing types need to be there, to be productive. Which means many managers need to be too. Which means, in non pure tech firms, the call will be stronger, for lots of other employees will be in-office. Some say, that they'll just refuse. That's fine and dandy now, but when the market crashes, 2 years, 5 years, and jobs become scare? You, and everyone else will work in office to put food on the table. I don't think this will stick.
Xylakant 5y ago
> and I think in Germany it's the same It should be, but it’s not in most circumstances. (Industry is fighting it tooth and nail, all of a sudden unpaid overtime would be so much harder.)
- ChuckNorris89 5y ago
  >all of a sudden unpaid overtime would be so much harder Austria "solved" this "problem" by introducing the infamous all-in contract, adopted by many companies, where all your potential overtime is already included in your compensation. Basically it's a fancy way to have you wave your right to paid overtime to what amounts to one of the most exploitative legal employment practices I've seen in Europe. And the strict time tracking is still there for legal and workplace accident insurance reasons ("you claim you hurt yourself through a work related accident at 14:40, but we need to check your time tracking as proof you were actually at work and not somewhere else")
  - Xylakant 5y ago
    > Austria "solved" this "problem" by introducing the infamous all-in contract, adopted by many companies, where all your potential overtime is already included in your compensation. That’s illegal in Germany, luckily. Some unpaid overtime can be included in the contract, but a contract must specify the maximum number of hours.

phillc73 5y ago

I can confirm this is the case in Austria. However, my experience is mostly using a computerised system via the company Intranet. There's an option to use an access card and touch it to a login pad at the office entrance, but I can also work from home, logging the time via the Intranet based system. I don't get paid overtime, but I do receive time off in lieu of excess hours worked.

b112 5y ago

for companies and governments to realize people working in tech and other sectors can be just as productive It may seem this way, but the conditions allowing this situation still exist. I assure you, large swaths of people will be called back to the office ASAP. And many non-IT/computing types need to be there, to be productive. Which means many managers need to be too. Which means, in non pure tech firms, the call will be stronger, for lots of other employees will be in-office. Some say, that they'll just refuse. That's fine and dandy now, but when the market crashes, 2 years, 5 years, and jobs become scare? You, and everyone else will work in office to put food on the table. I don't think this will stick.

Xylakant 5y ago

> and I think in Germany it's the same It should be, but it’s not in most circumstances. (Industry is fighting it tooth and nail, all of a sudden unpaid overtime would be so much harder.)

ChuckNorris89 5y ago
>all of a sudden unpaid overtime would be so much harder Austria "solved" this "problem" by introducing the infamous all-in contract, adopted by many companies, where all your potential overtime is already included in your compensation. Basically it's a fancy way to have you wave your right to paid overtime to what amounts to one of the most exploitative legal employment practices I've seen in Europe. And the strict time tracking is still there for legal and workplace accident insurance reasons ("you claim you hurt yourself through a work related accident at 14:40, but we need to check your time tracking as proof you were actually at work and not somewhere else")
- Xylakant 5y ago
  > Austria "solved" this "problem" by introducing the infamous all-in contract, adopted by many companies, where all your potential overtime is already included in your compensation. That’s illegal in Germany, luckily. Some unpaid overtime can be included in the contract, but a contract must specify the maximum number of hours.