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India’s tech sector reinforces old caste divides

32 points by NDAjam 5y ago

jrsj 5y ago
This isn’t just in India, I’ve seen this happen first hand in the U.S. in a majority Indian department before. With the added mess that comes with the people being fucked over also being the most likely to be here on an H1B visa so there wasn’t anything they could reasonably do about it.
kumarvvr 5y ago
Just to be clear, and I speak as an Indian. Below are the affirmative actions that are doled out to people from backward castes. 1. A portion of seats in all govt. and private institutes are reserved (roughly about 50%, about 70% in some states) 2. Students who belong to reserved castes have lower cutoffs, to be eligible for a chance at the seat (which already have a portion earmarked for them) 3. Any student belonging to the reserved category can also compete in the non-reserved category (There is no law that prohibits reserved students from applying for seats allotted to non-reserved students) 4. For all govt. jobs, which are a lot in India and include all civil service jobs, a portion of the jobs are reserved. 5. All promotions in a particular role, must have a minimum percentage of promotees from reserved castes (about 40 - 50%) and this is not conditional on performance. As in, you can be terrible at your job, but still get promoted almost as a law. There is a lot of resentment, particularly among more recent generations, because, most of the horrendous caste oppressions have reduced quite a bit (due to the reservation system), and in many urban centers, caste based oppression, atleast in student life is minimal. So there is resentment in students where those who are reserved look like they are cutting in line. A bit of historical background. The originator of this affirmative action, intended for it to be a limited period thing (about 5 or 10 years). However, due to the nature of politics in India, reservation and doling out sops based solely on caste of the person has morphed into vote bank politics. The absurdity of the situation is that the very state which is supposed to reduce caste based separation in the society ends up exacerbating it due to the affirmative action policy. I do agree that caste based discrimination occurs quite a bit in rural areas, but it is generally in decline. Additionally, there is a special law (called the Scheduled Castes/Scheduled Tribes atrocities act), which is so powerful, that if a SC/ST caste born individual as much as makes a verbal complaint (without the need for any proof) in a police station that the offender simply used "bad language" against him, the accused is, by law, mandated to be put in prison pending a hearing. Knowing about the state of courts in India, once a person is stuck in a case, especially one as above, it is virtually guaranteed that his life is over. The case can drag on for decades. In such an environment, there are many instances of SC/ST caste born people are excluded from many social rings, just because they have this unfair power to destroy the life of an individual.
- amriksohata 5y ago
  I found it weird that certain cases only need to get a certain exam score say 40% to become a doctor whilst others have to get 60%. This is discrimination in trying to prevent discrimination and does not promote a meritocracy.
- th3iedkid 5y ago
  All of the above points are so true and prevent growth for all sections of the society. It seems to facilitate a certain set of traits , which seems to only lead towards ineffective social systems over time. Cases of misuse of the scheduled caste/schedule tribe act, are most times towards suppressing some other crime[1]. Many cases are also politically motivated and political interests for vote banks keep them less-heard . [1]https://www.opindia.com/2021/07/qatar-based-indian-phd-scholar-says-false-sc-st-case-filed-against-her-by-nagarjuna-university-professor-who-used-to-harass-her-online/ https://www.opindia.com/2021/07/qatar-based-indian-phd-schol...
amriksohata 5y ago
I am of Indian origin, in the Tech industry and from what India classifies as a scheduled caste. This is not a caste divide. It is a class divide, it just happens their background is poor. The problem is not caste, its the discrimination. Also fun fact, there is no translation of the word Caste in India's scriptures. The word Caste comes from Castus, a Portuguese term used by Portuguese invaders into India and then adopted by the British. After 1857 when the richer parts of society refused to support the British, they gave certain groups a "false sense of pride" with high ranking positions to divide a wedge. Funnily it came back and bit them when the whole of India united against this propoganda.

32 points by NDAjam 5y ago

jrsj 5y ago

This isn’t just in India, I’ve seen this happen first hand in the U.S. in a majority Indian department before. With the added mess that comes with the people being fucked over also being the most likely to be here on an H1B visa so there wasn’t anything they could reasonably do about it.

kumarvvr 5y ago

Just to be clear, and I speak as an Indian. Below are the affirmative actions that are doled out to people from backward castes. 1. A portion of seats in all govt. and private institutes are reserved (roughly about 50%, about 70% in some states) 2. Students who belong to reserved castes have lower cutoffs, to be eligible for a chance at the seat (which already have a portion earmarked for them) 3. Any student belonging to the reserved category can also compete in the non-reserved category (There is no law that prohibits reserved students from applying for seats allotted to non-reserved students) 4. For all govt. jobs, which are a lot in India and include all civil service jobs, a portion of the jobs are reserved. 5. All promotions in a particular role, must have a minimum percentage of promotees from reserved castes (about 40 - 50%) and this is not conditional on performance. As in, you can be terrible at your job, but still get promoted almost as a law. There is a lot of resentment, particularly among more recent generations, because, most of the horrendous caste oppressions have reduced quite a bit (due to the reservation system), and in many urban centers, caste based oppression, atleast in student life is minimal. So there is resentment in students where those who are reserved look like they are cutting in line. A bit of historical background. The originator of this affirmative action, intended for it to be a limited period thing (about 5 or 10 years). However, due to the nature of politics in India, reservation and doling out sops based solely on caste of the person has morphed into vote bank politics. The absurdity of the situation is that the very state which is supposed to reduce caste based separation in the society ends up exacerbating it due to the affirmative action policy. I do agree that caste based discrimination occurs quite a bit in rural areas, but it is generally in decline. Additionally, there is a special law (called the Scheduled Castes/Scheduled Tribes atrocities act), which is so powerful, that if a SC/ST caste born individual as much as makes a verbal complaint (without the need for any proof) in a police station that the offender simply used "bad language" against him, the accused is, by law, mandated to be put in prison pending a hearing. Knowing about the state of courts in India, once a person is stuck in a case, especially one as above, it is virtually guaranteed that his life is over. The case can drag on for decades. In such an environment, there are many instances of SC/ST caste born people are excluded from many social rings, just because they have this unfair power to destroy the life of an individual.

amriksohata 5y ago
I found it weird that certain cases only need to get a certain exam score say 40% to become a doctor whilst others have to get 60%. This is discrimination in trying to prevent discrimination and does not promote a meritocracy.
th3iedkid 5y ago
All of the above points are so true and prevent growth for all sections of the society. It seems to facilitate a certain set of traits , which seems to only lead towards ineffective social systems over time. Cases of misuse of the scheduled caste/schedule tribe act, are most times towards suppressing some other crime[1]. Many cases are also politically motivated and political interests for vote banks keep them less-heard . [1]https://www.opindia.com/2021/07/qatar-based-indian-phd-scholar-says-false-sc-st-case-filed-against-her-by-nagarjuna-university-professor-who-used-to-harass-her-online/ https://www.opindia.com/2021/07/qatar-based-indian-phd-schol...

amriksohata 5y ago

I am of Indian origin, in the Tech industry and from what India classifies as a scheduled caste. This is not a caste divide. It is a class divide, it just happens their background is poor. The problem is not caste, its the discrimination. Also fun fact, there is no translation of the word Caste in India's scriptures. The word Caste comes from Castus, a Portuguese term used by Portuguese invaders into India and then adopted by the British. After 1857 when the richer parts of society refused to support the British, they gave certain groups a "false sense of pride" with high ranking positions to divide a wedge. Funnily it came back and bit them when the whole of India united against this propoganda.