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For what it's worth, the EU is not a government. There will still be 27 countries implementing it - like browser vendors implementing a spec - and, again much l

by samhw 5y ago

For what it's worth, the EU is not a government. There will still be 27 countries implementing it - like browser vendors implementing a spec - and, again much like browser vendors, they won't be doing it in a well-coordinated fashion. It will be rife with <blink>s. (Also, just for future reference, it's _the_ EU. Americans have a habit of doing this, also with the UK, and I don't understand it at all because your country is _the_ US.)

emteycz 5y ago
You're wrong about the EU, the setup you're talking about is long gone - since the Treaty of Lisbon to be specific, ratified over 10 years ago. EU regulations are effective even without any mention in the local law. EU directives must be implemented within the time limit or the state will be sued at the EU court (not local court!) and made to pay fines until it's implemented. Thus, the EU quacks just like a government. > and, again much like browser vendors, they won't be doing it in a well-coordinated fashion. It will be rife with <blink>s Hopefully, but most definitely not simply because "the EU is not a government". It is enough of a government to avert this issue - e.g. see vaccination passports. > (Also, just for future reference, it's _the_ EU. Americans have a habit of doing this, also with the UK, and I don't understand it at all because your country is _the_ US.) I'm Czech, not American. My native language doesn't use "the" or "a" at all. I'll watch my English better.
- teh_klev 5y ago
  > I'll watch my English better. I think your english is perfectly fine and that "mistake" wasn't worth nitpicking over. We're an international community and we need to let some things go for the sake of maintaining our sanity.
  - samhw 5y ago
    I don't think every spelling correction has to be taken as an attack, as is implicit in your comment. I'm glad to have people correct me when I'm wrong, since it makes me better at whatever I'm doing. It seems to me what's unhelpful is not correction, but the feeling that one must always be correct, that there's no room for growth. That being said, I think it's absolutely fair enough for the parent commenter not to know that. Their English is certainly better than my Czech. For Americans - divided by a common language - it's a more bewildering (and bewilderingly common) mistake.
    - ralph84 5y ago
      English is defined by usage. If enough people make the same “mistake”, it’s not a mistake.
      - samhw 5y ago
        Haha, yes, we're not nearly at that point yet. It's not quite that common...
    - teh_klev 5y ago
      Oh I didn't see it as an attack, just not that necessary. Also I'm based in Scotland and english is my first language, but I've learned to relax a bit as I get older, even with Americans and their torturing of the language :)
- samhw 5y ago
  > You're wrong about the EU, the setup you're talking about is long gone Sure, the EU might have more authority than you would like, or more than it used to, but 'government' has a specific meaning - and the EU is not that. The EU doesn't have a monopoly on the use of force. It can make regulations, and countries may follow them for whatever reason, but ultimately their regulations have no more intrinsic force than me saying "I command that everyone wear clogs on the bus". I can see that your comment tries to trace the EU's regulations back down to some meaningful authority over the sovereign countries, and stops at 'made to pay fines in an EU court'. 'Made' is doing a lot of work here. There is nothing 'making' the countries pay those fines, besides a desire to stay on good terms within the EU. Again, I too can issue the country of Italy a fine, and they may even choose to pay it if they sufficiently value their relationship with me, but that doesn't represent legal authority. Compare it with what happened to southern states during Reconstruction, or in the 1960s when they tried to refuse the federal government's directive to integrate schools. Indeed, compare Brexit with the American Civil War. Monopoly on the use of force within a certain territory. This is a fascinating topic, and a very subtle one, but it's more interesting to think about if you go at it without an axe to grind. > I'm Czech, not American. My native language doesn't use "the" or "a" at all. I'll watch my English better. Ah, fair enough. It's mostly Americans who do it, and they have no such excuse, haha.
  - emteycz 5y ago
    As far as I know, no definition of "government" requires it to have monopoly on force. A "state" as defined by Weber should have it, but Weber's own definition says governments and states are separate things - especially in a multi-layered system like the EU (Wikipedia lists https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iroquois#Iroquois_Confederacy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iroquois#Iroquois_Confederacy as an example of this situation).

by samhw 5y ago

emteycz 5y ago

You're wrong about the EU, the setup you're talking about is long gone - since the Treaty of Lisbon to be specific, ratified over 10 years ago. EU regulations are effective even without any mention in the local law. EU directives must be implemented within the time limit or the state will be sued at the EU court (not local court!) and made to pay fines until it's implemented. Thus, the EU quacks just like a government. > and, again much like browser vendors, they won't be doing it in a well-coordinated fashion. It will be rife with <blink>s Hopefully, but most definitely not simply because "the EU is not a government". It is enough of a government to avert this issue - e.g. see vaccination passports. > (Also, just for future reference, it's _the_ EU. Americans have a habit of doing this, also with the UK, and I don't understand it at all because your country is _the_ US.) I'm Czech, not American. My native language doesn't use "the" or "a" at all. I'll watch my English better.

teh_klev 5y ago
> I'll watch my English better. I think your english is perfectly fine and that "mistake" wasn't worth nitpicking over. We're an international community and we need to let some things go for the sake of maintaining our sanity.
- samhw 5y ago
  I don't think every spelling correction has to be taken as an attack, as is implicit in your comment. I'm glad to have people correct me when I'm wrong, since it makes me better at whatever I'm doing. It seems to me what's unhelpful is not correction, but the feeling that one must always be correct, that there's no room for growth. That being said, I think it's absolutely fair enough for the parent commenter not to know that. Their English is certainly better than my Czech. For Americans - divided by a common language - it's a more bewildering (and bewilderingly common) mistake.
  - ralph84 5y ago
    English is defined by usage. If enough people make the same “mistake”, it’s not a mistake.
    - samhw 5y ago
      Haha, yes, we're not nearly at that point yet. It's not quite that common...
  - teh_klev 5y ago
    Oh I didn't see it as an attack, just not that necessary. Also I'm based in Scotland and english is my first language, but I've learned to relax a bit as I get older, even with Americans and their torturing of the language :)
samhw 5y ago
> You're wrong about the EU, the setup you're talking about is long gone Sure, the EU might have more authority than you would like, or more than it used to, but 'government' has a specific meaning - and the EU is not that. The EU doesn't have a monopoly on the use of force. It can make regulations, and countries may follow them for whatever reason, but ultimately their regulations have no more intrinsic force than me saying "I command that everyone wear clogs on the bus". I can see that your comment tries to trace the EU's regulations back down to some meaningful authority over the sovereign countries, and stops at 'made to pay fines in an EU court'. 'Made' is doing a lot of work here. There is nothing 'making' the countries pay those fines, besides a desire to stay on good terms within the EU. Again, I too can issue the country of Italy a fine, and they may even choose to pay it if they sufficiently value their relationship with me, but that doesn't represent legal authority. Compare it with what happened to southern states during Reconstruction, or in the 1960s when they tried to refuse the federal government's directive to integrate schools. Indeed, compare Brexit with the American Civil War. Monopoly on the use of force within a certain territory. This is a fascinating topic, and a very subtle one, but it's more interesting to think about if you go at it without an axe to grind. > I'm Czech, not American. My native language doesn't use "the" or "a" at all. I'll watch my English better. Ah, fair enough. It's mostly Americans who do it, and they have no such excuse, haha.
- emteycz 5y ago
  As far as I know, no definition of "government" requires it to have monopoly on force. A "state" as defined by Weber should have it, but Weber's own definition says governments and states are separate things - especially in a multi-layered system like the EU (Wikipedia lists https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iroquois#Iroquois_Confederacy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iroquois#Iroquois_Confederacy as an example of this situation).