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My issue with most repair jobs as a hobbyist who can do amateur level of soldering is, oddly enough, stripped screws. No matter what I'm trying to do and despit

My issue with most repair jobs as a hobbyist who can do amateur level of soldering is, oddly enough, stripped screws. No matter what I'm trying to do and despite my best efforts, there's a very high chance of me stripping a screw, which is something that can happen in seconds and then either becomes very hard to recover or impossible. At some point, I either have leave it alone or destroy the casing altogether. They show a Playstation 3 controller in the article, which is actually easy to get into... if you don't strip the screws. Just a few seconds of using a PH0 bit instead of the required PH00 the other day lost me a controller that probably could have been saved. Is this a case of bad tools? I can definitely believe that when tackling rusty, big screws: larger and higher quality screwdrivers with good grips definitely made the difference for me in the past. But for precision jobs, I have no clue what I'm doing wrong. I was using an iFixit driver kit for this job. How do you avoid this? Do you absolutely have to know the exact bit to use for every screw beforehand? Is just guessing "eh, this looks about right" just asking for trouble? The much maligned in right-to-repair circles Torx and Apple pentalobe screws are actually great for me. Never in my life I ruined one of those, where sometimes I feel like I damage one out of five Philips or flat head screws I attempt to unscrew.

handsarebags 5y ago
Second the call for quality screwdrivers. You might be encountering thread locker too. You’ll notice a residue on the threads of screws. I’ve used a narrow tip on a hot air reflow gun to heat up fasteners I know have a thread locker on them. Do need to be aware of what is heat sensitive and how the hearts spreading. Is sometimes not an option.
Cthulhu_ 5y ago
Torx are really good screws actually, I believe you can apply more torque to them without stripping them and they're a staple in any repair kit these days. Similarly I have screws (and adapters) in my toolkit that look a bit like torx, they inspire me with a lot more confidence than Philips heads. And my TV is mounted to the wall with 8cm deep screw-bolts. That one didn't come with any tools, but we have a set of ratchet bolt thingymajigs that did the job just fine. My drill bit just was a little too short and the hole was on the wonk so it still took far longer than I would like, but, lessons learned.
- beerandt 5y ago
  Torx and starheads are great for things like soft wood, but too much torque screwing into metal or plastic is going to crack the casing or strip the threads or hole instead of the head. Similarly they work well for bolt applications with a lock washer or other point of weakness to handle over tightening. Torx screws really should be used with a driver with an adjustable torque setting, which is pretty standard on most cordless drivers now, but rare for manual ones.
  - frosted-flakes 5y ago
    FYI, Phillips screwdrivers are often referred to as "star" in my experience by average people. Best to just use the proper terms.
    - beerandt 5y ago
      >FYI, Phillips screwdrivers are often referred to as "star" in my experience by average people. FYI, that's wrong. The proper generic term for Phillips, Frearson, Posidrive, and similar is cruciform or cross drive, not star. >Best to just use the proper terms. "Star drive" is the proper generic term inclusive of the trademarked Torx, its security Torx version, and similar 6-sided drivers. Just as Robertson is a tradename for a type of square drive. A quick search seems to only list Phillips as "star" drive for some Indian web sites. [0]The hexalobular socket screw drive, often referred to by the original proprietary brand name Torx or by the alternative generic name star drive, uses a star-shaped recess in the fastener with six rounded points. [0]https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_screw_drives https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_screw_drives Also: https://www.sizes.com/tools//screw_drive.htm https://www.sizes.com/tools//screw_drive.htm
      - frosted-flakes 5y ago
        FYI, it's not wrong, because it's my lived experience: all my life a Phillips screwdriver has been called a "star screwdriver" by everyone around me (I'm in Ontario). I'm not saying to use the generic terms, but the actual terms; that is, Phillips, Torx, Robertson, etc., because those are unambiguous. The generic or "official" terms are irrelevant, just as the generic term for velcro, hook-and-loop, is irrelevant, because everyone calls it velcro. Also, as far as I know, Robertson is the only tapered square drive.
titzer 5y ago
I, too, struggle with stripping screws. It gets better, but you have to be careful. For one, don't ever use a power tool. Second, find a screwdriver that fits the actual screw's dimensions--not just the screw type and rough size, but actually fits the depth of the (e.g. Philips) head. Too narrow/sharp of a screwdriver can easily strip screws. I found a magnetic tip helps a lot too, if only because the driver is a different, grippier material. There are ways to recover stripped screws, e.g. by using a bit of rubber band between the screwdriver and the head. There are tons of YouTube videos. But if you can't, you are probably better off drilling it out than destroying the case. > The much maligned in right-to-repair circles Torx and Apple pentalobe screws I have no idea why they invented those; hex (Allen) screws are better. I don't have these tools and neither does practically anyone else. Oh, that's why they invented them.
- ya_throw 5y ago
  Torx can take more torque than a hex (due to the much smaller driving angle at the tool/bolt contact point). Bolts that take the same torque can thus have a thinner head.
- newaccount74 5y ago
  Hex screws strip extremely easily and if you use a bit too much force the hex bit easily gets stuck in the screw and you have to wiggle it free, further damaging the screw. Torx bits are much better, and they are very common, at least in Europe. Pentalobe on the other hand, is just Apple being Apple. They don't want you opening their devices (with some exceptions, like the remarkable RAM upgrade mechanism in the old 27" iMac, or the various fancy ways of opening Mac Pros.
  - eropple 5y ago
    Was going to say this - there are a lot of hex head screws out there whose slots are now nearly perfect circles. I use some in the shop, but they're exclusively ones where the head can be a full-depth socket, at least as deep as the screw threading is wide. And when I have to tighten or loosen a hex head, it's always with a T-handle wrench to ensure I've got the thing squared.
jackyinger 5y ago
You absolutely need to use the correct sized screwdriver for the screw. And then make sure to press the screwdriver firmly into the screw while you turn so it can’t climb out. You can get away with close enough or lower pressure if the screw is loose. If it is not, one size off and you’re asking for trouble. If it seems like this is annoying, think of the screw as an interface. One typically works to comply with an interface’s specification, otherwise they likely get unexpected results.
- beerandt 5y ago
  Not only this, but the correct driver head is designed to spin out before stripping the screw threads or over tightening. The head stripping instead of the threads or hole is a feature, as the desired point of failure. A quality screw can spin out without too much damage, but often today cheap screws mean trashing it once that's happened.
erwincoumans 5y ago
For me the fragile flat ribbon cables are hindering repair: they either break too easily or they are super hard to put back into their slot. And getting too close with a soldering iron will just melt the whole thing :) How do you repair a broken flat ribbon? They are often custom sizes, including weird shapes going around corners.
ya_throw 5y ago
It might be a technique thing, although you are correct that those maligned "modern" screw designs do not strip as easily. It is crucial to get the right type and size of screwdriver - look for the markings on the screw to differentiate Philips from Pozidrive (mixing them up will chew up screws). Give a test wiggle before trying to turn the screw - there should be minimal slop, and the bit shouldn't immediately try to "cam out". Apart from that, the trick is maximal downward force. Push the screwdriver into the screw as you're turning - most cross-head designs will try to "cam out" due to tapered sections of the interface, and that's what chews up the screws. I rarely strip screw heads, even on cheap consumer products.
- bfirsh 5y ago
  I learned the difference between Philips and Pozidrive at school, thank goodness, and this has saved countless stripped screw heads. I am surprised how few people know about it, even professionals. It’s particularly important when using power tools. An electric drill with Philips bit will instantly munch a Pozidrive screw. It is the 45 degree markings you’re looking for, in case that isn’t clear: https://shop4fasteners.co.uk/blog/pozidriv-vs-phillips/ https://shop4fasteners.co.uk/blog/pozidriv-vs-phillips/
  - steverb 5y ago
    Thank you for this. As an amateur I knew the difference existed, but I was never sure how to tell them apart. And if I had ever actually thought about it I would have googled, but it's one of those things that never occurred to me until I was knee deep into a repair.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- formerly_proven 5y ago
  JIS is still a thing as well. Look a lot like Philips except that it's way easier than normal to cam out.
  - 5y ago
FourthProtocol 5y ago
Give rusty screws a shot of WD40 and let soak for a while. Overnight if it's really bad. Clean the WD40 off the screw before starting to unscrew, then proceed as required.
fps-hero 5y ago
Aluminium is weak as piss. I get verbally abused by our machinist for simply asking for an M2 tapped hole. Even on a CNC, your tap can break during a run and you will have a vey bad day. How any of those tiny screw holes is machined in mass production is beyond me.
- varjag 5y ago
  I did a fair amount of threads as small as M1.2 in aluminium and brass by hand. You absolutely want to use two number sets of taps (undersize and finishing) for that.
snth 5y ago
Yes- death to Philips and slotted screw heads. Torx, square/Robertson, or (internal or external) hex heads are all so much better.
- throwaway946513 5y ago
  Slotted (flat) screw heads at least enable the user to use a 'non-tool' to remove the screw in the case they do not have the necessary tool on hand. Take for example my front license plate, the flat head screws enabled a random while I was at work to remove the plate from the car, without any specialized screwdriver. So in some instances flat heads may prove to be useful. Philips however has often led to the screws I need out getting stripped. Torx all the way.
CapitalistCartr 5y ago
I use Wiha screwdrivers for that very reason. Buy some good, German ones; inspect your old ones, and give most of them away.
formerly_proven 5y ago
The "stripping in seconds" bit makes me think you might be using a drill / driver to do it instead of a screwdriver. With the former it takes a fair bit of practice to notice imminent slippage, while the latter makes it much easier so that you can avoid it.
Turing_Machine 5y ago
If it comes to the worst, there are still things you can do. 1) If the stripped fastener is accessible (i.e., not down a hole) you can try cutting a new cross slot in a screw head or new flats on a nut using a Dremel tool with a cutoff wheel (or a small file, if you're old-school). This is also an option for any special fasteners that you can't get a driver for. 2) You can (carefully) drill the screw head off, then, once the piece immediately below the screw head is loose and has been removed, grab the stub with a pair of vise grips and turn it out. 3) If it's in plastic, you can heat the screw head with a soldering iron until the plastic surrounding the screw body melts and the whole thing can be pulled off (obviously this is going to result in damaging the plastic to some degree... you may need to use a larger self-tapping screw to put it back together, or you could put a small amount of hot-melt glue down the now-oversized hole, in case you need to do it again). As others have said, hand drivers are a better choice for this than powered drivers. If you do use a power driver and it has adjustable torque, start at the lowest setting. And yeah, as much downward pressure as you can apply without breaking the case is a good idea.
stephen_g 5y ago
We switched everything to Torx at one of the companies I do work for (from Phillips) because too many screws would strip out. This is SATCOM stuff, mostly maritime. You get a tiny bit of gunk seizing the thread, and you wouldn’t be able to get screws out because you couldn’t apply enough torque to loosen them without camming out and stripping them. Torx has basically completely solved the problem. At the factory all the structural screws and bolts go on with torque wrenches (not really necessary for covers etc.). But you can get the feel pretty easily when required in the field - we’ve had so many fewer problems, it’s crazy. I’d never design something with a Phillips screw in it again!
jandrese 5y ago
If you are stripping Phillips head screws a lot try finding a screwdriver one size larger. I tell people to find the screwdriver that looks like the right size and then go one size up. The head should be snug in the screw, if it is not you are far more likely to strip it. Also pay attention because some Phillips head screwdrivers are pointy and some are more flat tipped. Using a pointy screwdriver on a flat type screw is a good way to strip them. With the right tools you will almost never strip a Philips head screw that isn't rusty or glued in. In the latter case you're more likely to snap the head off entirely than to strip it. Finally, when removing the screw remember to push down on it (yes this seems counterproductive) to avoid slipping out of the hole. Guarantee doesn't include cases where the knucklehead before you used the wrong screwdriver and rounded the crap out of the screw head.
- mikestew 5y ago
  Guarantee doesn't include cases where the knucklehead before you used the wrong screwdriver and rounded the crap out of the screw head For those cases, there's the manual impact driver. Hand-held, whack the end of it with a hammer and it drives the Phillips/whatever bit into the fastener while giving it a little twist. A couple of whacks will remove the most stubborn screw. Or it will tear the head off. Those are the only two outcomes I've ever seen, it never just sits and spins in the rounded slots.
- doubled112 5y ago
  > some Phillips head screwdrivers are pointy and some are more flat tipped Some Phillips are not Phillips at all. They are JIS. Or pozidriv.

handsarebags 5y ago

Second the call for quality screwdrivers. You might be encountering thread locker too. You’ll notice a residue on the threads of screws. I’ve used a narrow tip on a hot air reflow gun to heat up fasteners I know have a thread locker on them. Do need to be aware of what is heat sensitive and how the hearts spreading. Is sometimes not an option.

Cthulhu_ 5y ago

Torx are really good screws actually, I believe you can apply more torque to them without stripping them and they're a staple in any repair kit these days. Similarly I have screws (and adapters) in my toolkit that look a bit like torx, they inspire me with a lot more confidence than Philips heads. And my TV is mounted to the wall with 8cm deep screw-bolts. That one didn't come with any tools, but we have a set of ratchet bolt thingymajigs that did the job just fine. My drill bit just was a little too short and the hole was on the wonk so it still took far longer than I would like, but, lessons learned.

beerandt 5y ago
Torx and starheads are great for things like soft wood, but too much torque screwing into metal or plastic is going to crack the casing or strip the threads or hole instead of the head. Similarly they work well for bolt applications with a lock washer or other point of weakness to handle over tightening. Torx screws really should be used with a driver with an adjustable torque setting, which is pretty standard on most cordless drivers now, but rare for manual ones.
- frosted-flakes 5y ago
  FYI, Phillips screwdrivers are often referred to as "star" in my experience by average people. Best to just use the proper terms.
  - beerandt 5y ago
    >FYI, Phillips screwdrivers are often referred to as "star" in my experience by average people. FYI, that's wrong. The proper generic term for Phillips, Frearson, Posidrive, and similar is cruciform or cross drive, not star. >Best to just use the proper terms. "Star drive" is the proper generic term inclusive of the trademarked Torx, its security Torx version, and similar 6-sided drivers. Just as Robertson is a tradename for a type of square drive. A quick search seems to only list Phillips as "star" drive for some Indian web sites. [0]The hexalobular socket screw drive, often referred to by the original proprietary brand name Torx or by the alternative generic name star drive, uses a star-shaped recess in the fastener with six rounded points. [0]https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_screw_drives https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_screw_drives Also: https://www.sizes.com/tools//screw_drive.htm https://www.sizes.com/tools//screw_drive.htm
    - frosted-flakes 5y ago
      FYI, it's not wrong, because it's my lived experience: all my life a Phillips screwdriver has been called a "star screwdriver" by everyone around me (I'm in Ontario). I'm not saying to use the generic terms, but the actual terms; that is, Phillips, Torx, Robertson, etc., because those are unambiguous. The generic or "official" terms are irrelevant, just as the generic term for velcro, hook-and-loop, is irrelevant, because everyone calls it velcro. Also, as far as I know, Robertson is the only tapered square drive.

titzer 5y ago

I, too, struggle with stripping screws. It gets better, but you have to be careful. For one, don't ever use a power tool. Second, find a screwdriver that fits the actual screw's dimensions--not just the screw type and rough size, but actually fits the depth of the (e.g. Philips) head. Too narrow/sharp of a screwdriver can easily strip screws. I found a magnetic tip helps a lot too, if only because the driver is a different, grippier material. There are ways to recover stripped screws, e.g. by using a bit of rubber band between the screwdriver and the head. There are tons of YouTube videos. But if you can't, you are probably better off drilling it out than destroying the case. > The much maligned in right-to-repair circles Torx and Apple pentalobe screws I have no idea why they invented those; hex (Allen) screws are better. I don't have these tools and neither does practically anyone else. Oh, that's why they invented them.

ya_throw 5y ago
Torx can take more torque than a hex (due to the much smaller driving angle at the tool/bolt contact point). Bolts that take the same torque can thus have a thinner head.
newaccount74 5y ago
Hex screws strip extremely easily and if you use a bit too much force the hex bit easily gets stuck in the screw and you have to wiggle it free, further damaging the screw. Torx bits are much better, and they are very common, at least in Europe. Pentalobe on the other hand, is just Apple being Apple. They don't want you opening their devices (with some exceptions, like the remarkable RAM upgrade mechanism in the old 27" iMac, or the various fancy ways of opening Mac Pros.
- eropple 5y ago
  Was going to say this - there are a lot of hex head screws out there whose slots are now nearly perfect circles. I use some in the shop, but they're exclusively ones where the head can be a full-depth socket, at least as deep as the screw threading is wide. And when I have to tighten or loosen a hex head, it's always with a T-handle wrench to ensure I've got the thing squared.

jackyinger 5y ago

You absolutely need to use the correct sized screwdriver for the screw. And then make sure to press the screwdriver firmly into the screw while you turn so it can’t climb out. You can get away with close enough or lower pressure if the screw is loose. If it is not, one size off and you’re asking for trouble. If it seems like this is annoying, think of the screw as an interface. One typically works to comply with an interface’s specification, otherwise they likely get unexpected results.

beerandt 5y ago
Not only this, but the correct driver head is designed to spin out before stripping the screw threads or over tightening. The head stripping instead of the threads or hole is a feature, as the desired point of failure. A quality screw can spin out without too much damage, but often today cheap screws mean trashing it once that's happened.

erwincoumans 5y ago

For me the fragile flat ribbon cables are hindering repair: they either break too easily or they are super hard to put back into their slot. And getting too close with a soldering iron will just melt the whole thing :) How do you repair a broken flat ribbon? They are often custom sizes, including weird shapes going around corners.

ya_throw 5y ago

It might be a technique thing, although you are correct that those maligned "modern" screw designs do not strip as easily. It is crucial to get the right type and size of screwdriver - look for the markings on the screw to differentiate Philips from Pozidrive (mixing them up will chew up screws). Give a test wiggle before trying to turn the screw - there should be minimal slop, and the bit shouldn't immediately try to "cam out". Apart from that, the trick is maximal downward force. Push the screwdriver into the screw as you're turning - most cross-head designs will try to "cam out" due to tapered sections of the interface, and that's what chews up the screws. I rarely strip screw heads, even on cheap consumer products.

bfirsh 5y ago
I learned the difference between Philips and Pozidrive at school, thank goodness, and this has saved countless stripped screw heads. I am surprised how few people know about it, even professionals. It’s particularly important when using power tools. An electric drill with Philips bit will instantly munch a Pozidrive screw. It is the 45 degree markings you’re looking for, in case that isn’t clear: https://shop4fasteners.co.uk/blog/pozidriv-vs-phillips/ https://shop4fasteners.co.uk/blog/pozidriv-vs-phillips/
- steverb 5y ago
  Thank you for this. As an amateur I knew the difference existed, but I was never sure how to tell them apart. And if I had ever actually thought about it I would have googled, but it's one of those things that never occurred to me until I was knee deep into a repair.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
formerly_proven 5y ago
JIS is still a thing as well. Look a lot like Philips except that it's way easier than normal to cam out.
- 5y ago

FourthProtocol 5y ago

Give rusty screws a shot of WD40 and let soak for a while. Overnight if it's really bad. Clean the WD40 off the screw before starting to unscrew, then proceed as required.

fps-hero 5y ago

Aluminium is weak as piss. I get verbally abused by our machinist for simply asking for an M2 tapped hole. Even on a CNC, your tap can break during a run and you will have a vey bad day. How any of those tiny screw holes is machined in mass production is beyond me.

varjag 5y ago
I did a fair amount of threads as small as M1.2 in aluminium and brass by hand. You absolutely want to use two number sets of taps (undersize and finishing) for that.

snth 5y ago

Yes- death to Philips and slotted screw heads. Torx, square/Robertson, or (internal or external) hex heads are all so much better.

throwaway946513 5y ago
Slotted (flat) screw heads at least enable the user to use a 'non-tool' to remove the screw in the case they do not have the necessary tool on hand. Take for example my front license plate, the flat head screws enabled a random while I was at work to remove the plate from the car, without any specialized screwdriver. So in some instances flat heads may prove to be useful. Philips however has often led to the screws I need out getting stripped. Torx all the way.

CapitalistCartr 5y ago

I use Wiha screwdrivers for that very reason. Buy some good, German ones; inspect your old ones, and give most of them away.

formerly_proven 5y ago

The "stripping in seconds" bit makes me think you might be using a drill / driver to do it instead of a screwdriver. With the former it takes a fair bit of practice to notice imminent slippage, while the latter makes it much easier so that you can avoid it.

Turing_Machine 5y ago

If it comes to the worst, there are still things you can do. 1) If the stripped fastener is accessible (i.e., not down a hole) you can try cutting a new cross slot in a screw head or new flats on a nut using a Dremel tool with a cutoff wheel (or a small file, if you're old-school). This is also an option for any special fasteners that you can't get a driver for. 2) You can (carefully) drill the screw head off, then, once the piece immediately below the screw head is loose and has been removed, grab the stub with a pair of vise grips and turn it out. 3) If it's in plastic, you can heat the screw head with a soldering iron until the plastic surrounding the screw body melts and the whole thing can be pulled off (obviously this is going to result in damaging the plastic to some degree... you may need to use a larger self-tapping screw to put it back together, or you could put a small amount of hot-melt glue down the now-oversized hole, in case you need to do it again). As others have said, hand drivers are a better choice for this than powered drivers. If you do use a power driver and it has adjustable torque, start at the lowest setting. And yeah, as much downward pressure as you can apply without breaking the case is a good idea.

stephen_g 5y ago

We switched everything to Torx at one of the companies I do work for (from Phillips) because too many screws would strip out. This is SATCOM stuff, mostly maritime. You get a tiny bit of gunk seizing the thread, and you wouldn’t be able to get screws out because you couldn’t apply enough torque to loosen them without camming out and stripping them. Torx has basically completely solved the problem. At the factory all the structural screws and bolts go on with torque wrenches (not really necessary for covers etc.). But you can get the feel pretty easily when required in the field - we’ve had so many fewer problems, it’s crazy. I’d never design something with a Phillips screw in it again!

jandrese 5y ago

If you are stripping Phillips head screws a lot try finding a screwdriver one size larger. I tell people to find the screwdriver that looks like the right size and then go one size up. The head should be snug in the screw, if it is not you are far more likely to strip it. Also pay attention because some Phillips head screwdrivers are pointy and some are more flat tipped. Using a pointy screwdriver on a flat type screw is a good way to strip them. With the right tools you will almost never strip a Philips head screw that isn't rusty or glued in. In the latter case you're more likely to snap the head off entirely than to strip it. Finally, when removing the screw remember to push down on it (yes this seems counterproductive) to avoid slipping out of the hole. Guarantee doesn't include cases where the knucklehead before you used the wrong screwdriver and rounded the crap out of the screw head.

mikestew 5y ago
Guarantee doesn't include cases where the knucklehead before you used the wrong screwdriver and rounded the crap out of the screw head For those cases, there's the manual impact driver. Hand-held, whack the end of it with a hammer and it drives the Phillips/whatever bit into the fastener while giving it a little twist. A couple of whacks will remove the most stubborn screw. Or it will tear the head off. Those are the only two outcomes I've ever seen, it never just sits and spins in the rounded slots.
doubled112 5y ago
> some Phillips head screwdrivers are pointy and some are more flat tipped Some Phillips are not Phillips at all. They are JIS. Or pozidriv.