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Ask HN: Is Burning Man Over?
I went a couple time in early 2000's and loved it. I started to sour on it when a massive amount of oil was lit on fire for an art installation a little later. Now it's limping along in the pandemic, but the organizers still want to set large fires in times of climate crisis. I don't care if they do carbon offsets, it's still not a good look. The symbolism has changed. Why not do a light show? But no, they want to be "buring" man. I think the festival won't be able to come back from the pandemic and the increasingly severe climate crisis. The participants will look more and more out of touch.
- hotpotamus 5y agoWhat if the reason they look more and more out of touch is because they're more and more out of touch? Wouldn't that lead them create ever larger displays of waste and damn anyone else's opinion?
- WJW 5y agoHasn't rejecting the norms of "normal" society been part of the burning man ethos since the start? Maybe OP has just grown old and is now yelling at kids these days to get off his lawn/desert/etc.
- labrador 5y agoBurning symbolic figures has a long history. I realize that people driving and flying there makes it similar to other festivals in terms of carbon output, but I think the Burning Man organizers should challenge themselves to rethink the burning ethos and come up with something that is more 21st century, not 11th century. It's a symbolic act that doesn't need to about burning wood. Where are the artists thinking outside the box? That's what I enjoyed about Burning Man.
- sneak 5y agoBurning Man is like working at Google: I really really wish I could have been involved in 2007-8ish, but today there is no amount of money you could pay me to do it in 2022.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- fundad 5y agoI don’t think it was ever about being in-touch or even low emissions. I thought the purpose was to be funky like SouthBy
- cbtacy 5y ago"Burning Man is funky like SouthBy" is probably the most damning condemnation of today's Burning Man I've read. RIP
- bitxbitxbitcoin 5y agoTraditions outweighs environmental concerns all the time. Of all the environmental concerns, I bet the carbon footprint of the eponymous burning man ranks low compared to stuff like people flying in from other countries. Maybe they should make Burning Man only for Nevadans?
- rob74 5y agoThe organizers could put up posters comparing the amount of CO2 emitted by the "Burning Man" to the amount produced by an intercontinental flight, or with the number of "Burning Man equivalents" that are burnt each day in the Amazon rainforest - that would probably be an eye-opener for some.
- WillPostForFood 5y agoIt is “Burning Man”, if you have a problem with them burning, probably should skip it.
- korse 5y agoCan someone explain 'limping along'?
- labrador 5y agoLiterally lame, as in a lame animal who tentatively and gingerly makes his way forward
- korse 5y agoUnderstood. Not exactly the answer I was looking for though. I know a lot of people who lament that burning man is becoming too much like a traditional festival. Increasing numbers of attendees require corporation-esque governance which in turn damages the authenticity of the experience. The influx of influencers and others who 'naively?' expect a produced event doesn't help either. Less people due to a pandemic would seem to be a good thing. Some would argue that the man really needs to fall out of fashion so it can shrink back down to a size that allows effective self government by attendees without undue legal risk. All said, what part of the pandemic is causing Burning Man to 'limp' rather than consolidate and hasten a return to its roots?
- joefife 5y agoPeople for in from all over the world. That is literally burning oil.
- henryaj 5y ago> a massive amount of oil was lit on fire How much is a "massive amount"? Lots of people at Burning Man would have flown in; a 4000 mile flight burns 50 gallons of fuel (around 340lb) per passenger which I imagine is considerably more than whatever you saw got burned.
- mch82 5y agoWhat’s the next Burning Man?
- beardyw 5y agoAll over Great Britain we have Guy Fawkes night (November 5th) every year and burn a poor representation of a human being for reasons everyone forgot long ago. In advance it used to be dragged around by us kids asking for "penny for the Guy". Not sure they do that now. In Lewes they do the night in style, though I have never been. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guy_Fawkes_Night https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guy_Fawkes_Night https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lewes_Bonfire https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lewes_Bonfire
- mbg721 5y agoHow thoroughly has Halloween candy permeated British society as a replacement?
- beardyw 5y agoHalloween wasn't a thing, then it was, but now not so much where I live, and hardly at all under covid. Nov 5th is still bigger.
- mbg721 5y agoThis is interesting to me (midwest US)...at Halloween 2020, I had a space-alien mask and dispensed candy with a pair of aluminum tongs. This last year was basically normal, and it was a weekend, so we had a couple hundred kids come to the door. 100-300 is about standard.
- cbtacy 5y agoIt's been over since 1997 when Black Rock City LLC was incorporated.
- keyme 5y agoThe amount of emissions from a large bonfire is literally 0 in comparison to what it takes to bring half of the participants aboard jets from halfway around the world. Since that would make all festivals "over", by your logic, I can guarantee you that will never happen.
- throwoutway 5y agoI scrolled expecting this response. What’s just one widget? It’s like is literally zero in comparison to this other thing. Now repeat that 10,000,000,000,000 times.
- pcmoney 5y agoLighting large fires when the lefty social pressure says that it is “bad” is in keeping with the burning man ethos. The lefty “man” keeps trying to control and bully everyone into meaningless virtue signaling and herd mentality. Defying that might actually return burning man back to its roots and make it interesting again. If the left wants to be the man, then they get burnt just like the right. Burning man should be an equal opportunity middle finger to all who try to control. Side note: willing to bet the total per person carbon released by burning man is quite low compared to other vacations most “eco conscious” attendees attend.
- labrador 5y agoSo Burning Man is right wing now? That explains a lot. The Burning Man ethos was originally a rebellion against corporate ethos but is now corporate itself complaining about lefies mucking things up with their woke virtue signaling. I want Burning Man to grow up an act responsibly by blazing another trail towards a better future, not continue to act like a rebellious teenager
- pcmoney 5y agoNo burning man is no wing. It is a middle finger to a false dichotomy. Thats just your opinion of what a better future is, stop trying to enforce your opinions on others. Practice more radical self reliance, be your own, don't just vomit others thoughts, don't do what you are told, don't conform.
- pcmoney 5y ago"I want burning man to grow up" is basically saying you don't understand the point of burning man. I think you just don't like burning man, which is fine! Not everything is for everybody. But just because you don't get it and its not for you doesn't mean you should try and change it.
- jacknews 5y ago'I think the bigger turn-off is all the 'VIP' enclaves and their 'hospitality staff', often aka young women under pressure to offer extra-contractual services. Perhaps the burn should be more distributed.
- jamisteven 5y agoMaybe checkout "WokeFest". Held virtually over zoom. Absolute rager.
- wnolens 5y agoThe whole thing has been out of touch as long as I've known about it (10y). I won the lottery one year but sold my tickets out of conscience. Rich folk pouring in from all over with thousands of dollars in disposable stuff bought from Amazon/Walmart to "survive" in an inhospitable environment, just to participate in a hedonist festival that masquerades as a something morally superior. "But it's leave no trace!" Lol so you just need to schlep your waste products out and dump it at the nearest non-playa location. The negative externalities of burning man are blinding. Incredibly wasteful week+.
- ericfrazier 5y agoSpend the same amount of time worrying about emissions from the military industrial complex and we'll be aright.
- vernon99 5y agoWhy people who haven’t been to the few recent burns (or any ever) feel obliged to comment on this thread. And why they think their comments have anything to do with the actual reality? Isn’t _this_ what is called out of touch? The origin of the thread is also quite ridiculous as pointed below in the comments, since when burning some oil became a problem? And since then condemning that is anything more than virtue signaling? Now, to the actual topic, as somebody who’ve been to the recent burns (and no, I didn’t fly in on a jet and was not a part of the plug and play camp). Last year burn was freaking awesome! A lot of people don’t realize, but BM Org actually stopped doing their events for 2 years. But you still can camp there legally. Just with no fires on the ground. So the community took the matter in their hands and organized a Renegade Burn. First year it was about 1.5k in size, second about 12k. And this is insane what can be done with no central coordination. Instead of the burning man we had a great drone show of a man that brought some people to tears (keeping the spirit alive). There were no massive sound camps as before, but instead a lot of grassroots smaller camps with ridiculous music that made me laugh so much. Instead of the streets there were now islands of life in the desert with no fences. And instead of the porta-potties you now had to figure out your situation yourself. It went mostly smoothly, my expectation was that in the end there will be a ton of crap and poo left, but no, we stayed till Tue and I haven’t seen anything like that (although I heard of some instances). I am very curious what would happen next year if it keeps going like that, can this self-org sustain the larger scale or would it have to become the new BMOrg. But don’t think we’ll be able to see it as BMOrg takes back the reigns and runs the next one again, afaik. So unless no major covid wave again, we’re back to what we had 3 years ago (which is also a one-in-a-lifetime insane experience, just of a different sort) Another anecdote that I find fun. Five years ago I’ve met a guy who was on 32 burns, I think from the first or second. I asked him the same question, how much it changed. Long story short, it does change all the time. It’s in its nature and the nature of things. You either accept that or stick to your ideal picture of something and suffer. Anicca, “you can’t maintain reality to your satisfaction”, but it is still beatifull and powefull and full of love and I’m gratefull to all people who help and ever helped to bring it to life.
- labrador 5y agoThis is what I'm talking about. I'm sorry my original post was not worded in a way that would get me this kind of answer, but you did it anyway. Thanks!
- madvoid 5y agoBurning man being NIMBY about geothermal energy (https://www.rgj.com/story/life/arts/burning-man/2022/01/10/burning-man-some-gerlach-locals-oppose-future-geothermal-project-ormat-technologies-inc/9158967002/ https://www.rgj.com/story/life/arts/burning-man/2022/01/10/b...) probably has more negative impacts towards the climate than their fires.