4 ms·

Also, one bitcoin transaction takes as much energy as 1.5 million visa transactions[0]. [0] https://www.statista.com/statistics/881541/bitcoin-energy-consumpti

Also, one bitcoin transaction takes as much energy as 1.5 million visa transactions[0]. [0] https://www.statista.com/statistics/881541/bitcoin-energy-consumption-transaction-comparison-visa/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/881541/bitcoin-energy-co...

bob1029 5y ago
I don't think that 1.5mm figure is accurate. Assuming the power consumption for 1 BTC transaction is 1173 kWh as stated in the article, then we are off by a few orders of magnitude. This is enough energy to run an IBM z15 mainframe at maximum configuration (~30kW consumption) for ~39 hours [0]. I am 100% certain that Visa can process more than 1.5 million transactions on such a platform in that amount of time. [0]: https://ibm-zcouncil.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/IBM-z15-Technical-Pitch-Handout.pdf https://ibm-zcouncil.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/IBM-z15-... (See page 88)
- eternityforest 5y ago
  I'm guessing there's probably several such maiframes spread out all over the place. One would presumably not want to store all the world's money on one server. At the very least banks all have their own, right? And would they not want redundancy? 1.5 million might stil be a bit low though.
  - bob1029 5y ago
    > One would presumably not want to store all the world's money on one server. That's not how any of this works. Money is not stored anywhere in particular, unless we are talking about physical currency or commodities. The entire point of a mainframe is to be able to centralize critical things (like credit card processing) that simply cannot be allowed to fail. Most large banks and credit card processors operate their own pile of magic and then settle after the fact. It's not like VISA's IBM is the one big money bin that everything runs through. > 1.5 million might stil be a bit low though. In my scenario above, 1.5 million is a joke. That max spec machine could easily handle tens or hundreds of billions of credit card transactions in that timeframe.
Feeble 5y ago
It's wrong to see it as power consumption per transaction. The power used is to secure the monetary network. So for VISA you would have to factor in all their offices, running systems, employees, security etc. used to secure their financial network.
- floatingatoll 5y ago
  Those resources use a significantly lower total amount of energy per annum and per transaction relative to cryptocoins, as they do not depend on brute force scans of cryptographic hash spaces in order to perform and secure transactions.
- nicbou 5y ago
  I'd still assume that Visa uses less power than Austria.

bob1029 5y ago

I don't think that 1.5mm figure is accurate. Assuming the power consumption for 1 BTC transaction is 1173 kWh as stated in the article, then we are off by a few orders of magnitude. This is enough energy to run an IBM z15 mainframe at maximum configuration (~30kW consumption) for ~39 hours [0]. I am 100% certain that Visa can process more than 1.5 million transactions on such a platform in that amount of time. [0]: https://ibm-zcouncil.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/IBM-z15-Technical-Pitch-Handout.pdf https://ibm-zcouncil.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/IBM-z15-... (See page 88)

eternityforest 5y ago
I'm guessing there's probably several such maiframes spread out all over the place. One would presumably not want to store all the world's money on one server. At the very least banks all have their own, right? And would they not want redundancy? 1.5 million might stil be a bit low though.
- bob1029 5y ago
  > One would presumably not want to store all the world's money on one server. That's not how any of this works. Money is not stored anywhere in particular, unless we are talking about physical currency or commodities. The entire point of a mainframe is to be able to centralize critical things (like credit card processing) that simply cannot be allowed to fail. Most large banks and credit card processors operate their own pile of magic and then settle after the fact. It's not like VISA's IBM is the one big money bin that everything runs through. > 1.5 million might stil be a bit low though. In my scenario above, 1.5 million is a joke. That max spec machine could easily handle tens or hundreds of billions of credit card transactions in that timeframe.

Feeble 5y ago

It's wrong to see it as power consumption per transaction. The power used is to secure the monetary network. So for VISA you would have to factor in all their offices, running systems, employees, security etc. used to secure their financial network.

floatingatoll 5y ago
Those resources use a significantly lower total amount of energy per annum and per transaction relative to cryptocoins, as they do not depend on brute force scans of cryptographic hash spaces in order to perform and secure transactions.
nicbou 5y ago
I'd still assume that Visa uses less power than Austria.