5 ms·

This really is getting quite tiring. It’s such a red herring. I’d suggest reading this article by Nic Carter to get the other sides POV: https://www.newsweek.c

This really is getting quite tiring. It’s such a red herring. I’d suggest reading this article by Nic Carter to get the other sides POV: https://www.newsweek.com/bitcoin-mining-americas-most-misunderstood-industry-opinion-1669892 https://www.newsweek.com/bitcoin-mining-americas-most-misund...

nicbou 5y ago
I appreciate that you shared this, but I remain entirely unconvinced. His argument is "pff it's not that bad".
- kkjjkgjjgg 5y ago
  No it isn't. Among other things he claims that the energy grid needs energy taken off from it at times (yielding pockets of negative energy prices), and Miners could stand ready to do that. He writes more stuff, certainly more than "it's not that bad".
  - viraptor 5y ago
    If only we had something else to do with that energy... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flywheel_energy_storage https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flywheel_energy_storage https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pumped-storage_hydroelectricity https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pumped-storage_hydroelectricit... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battery_storage_power_station https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battery_storage_power_station and others https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grid_energy_storage https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grid_energy_storage Or just distributing that energy long-distance to other places where it's needed. Taking that energy off the grid is literally an incentive to not add any of those solutions which we will need in the future unless we finally agree to go nuclear.
    - vmception 5y ago
      the reason these things are not accomplished is because it costs more to do them than the energy is worth, which is the only reason it hasn't been done if bitcoin mining makes you suddenly notice that you want these logistical nuances subsidized, after a hundred years of never noticing, then fine, compete with the miners at energy producing sites and legislatively that way
      - viraptor 5y ago
        > after a hundred years of never noticing, then fine What are you even talking about? The issue of peak vs base load/generation is known for ages and getting only more relevant for planning these days since most renewables are not constant output.
        vmception 5y ago
        I'm talking about captured energy that was wasted directly into the atmosphere because it was uneconomical to send it somewhere else. You're talking about peak and base load.
        viraptor 5y ago
        That is extremely related. We have the extra captured energy because we have base load handling plants that can't scale down quickly enough. This is not a new effect or something people suddenly started caring about.
  - marcellus23 5y ago
    > Miners could stand ready to do that “Could,” or “are”? How many miners are doing this? How many would even want to?
    - kkjjkgjjgg 5y ago
      So far one issue has been getting one's hands on mining hardware in a reliable way, I think. Yesterday I heard Intel wants to offer mining hardware, so that could perhaps make it easier to install a miner in your wind farm or whatever.
Shamii 5y ago
This article is literally garbage. It completely ignores that what Bitcoin is doing is a total waste. Yes Bitcoin might use energy which might not could be used otherwise but it is literally better for our environment not to use this energy instead of creating heat and hardware garbage. He also tells a lie that Bitcoin miners are happy to only consume excess energy while Bitcoin miner do the total opposite: they consume as long as it is financial success NOT as long as the energy is unused. He even tries to make the new York Bitcoin power plant 'green' by stating that it also creates heat for the neighborhood and just bluntly ignores that this power plant consumes natural gas to calculate worthless hashes and heat. The fact is that plenty of countries ban Bitcoin mining because it disrupts there power network, because it undermines the financial control and because what also happens that people are now able to steal power. And yes in the USA there are people doing Bitcoin mining today and also paying for ac to cool it down and no one is doing Bitcoin mining because it's green (which it isn't) but because the energy price is lower as the hype of Bitcoin. That's the only reason. And it's the most shittiest reasons to burn through energy and hardware. Fuck you Bitcoin miners fu
- usrbinbash 5y ago
  > Yes Bitcoin might use energy which might not could be used otherwise Even using the electricity to literally just pump water uphill would be a better use than to pump it into the blorkchain: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pumped-storage_hydroelectricity https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pumped-storage_hydroelectricit... And if the world is looking for something to do with surplus electricity: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desalination#Energy_consumption https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desalination#Energy_consumptio... Considering the fact that 1/10th of the worlds population have no access to safe drinking water, this would be a far better use ;-)
- vmception 5y ago
  yeah we get it, it doesn't matter if any of those points improve or stop happening because at the end of the day your goal post will continue moving to "bitcoin is a total waste because I don't respect it anyway" and thats not an absolute for everyone.

nicbou 5y ago

I appreciate that you shared this, but I remain entirely unconvinced. His argument is "pff it's not that bad".

kkjjkgjjgg 5y ago
No it isn't. Among other things he claims that the energy grid needs energy taken off from it at times (yielding pockets of negative energy prices), and Miners could stand ready to do that. He writes more stuff, certainly more than "it's not that bad".
- viraptor 5y ago
  If only we had something else to do with that energy... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flywheel_energy_storage https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flywheel_energy_storage https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pumped-storage_hydroelectricity https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pumped-storage_hydroelectricit... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battery_storage_power_station https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battery_storage_power_station and others https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grid_energy_storage https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grid_energy_storage Or just distributing that energy long-distance to other places where it's needed. Taking that energy off the grid is literally an incentive to not add any of those solutions which we will need in the future unless we finally agree to go nuclear.
  - vmception 5y ago
    the reason these things are not accomplished is because it costs more to do them than the energy is worth, which is the only reason it hasn't been done if bitcoin mining makes you suddenly notice that you want these logistical nuances subsidized, after a hundred years of never noticing, then fine, compete with the miners at energy producing sites and legislatively that way
    - viraptor 5y ago
      > after a hundred years of never noticing, then fine What are you even talking about? The issue of peak vs base load/generation is known for ages and getting only more relevant for planning these days since most renewables are not constant output.
      - vmception 5y ago
        I'm talking about captured energy that was wasted directly into the atmosphere because it was uneconomical to send it somewhere else. You're talking about peak and base load.
        viraptor 5y ago
        That is extremely related. We have the extra captured energy because we have base load handling plants that can't scale down quickly enough. This is not a new effect or something people suddenly started caring about.
- marcellus23 5y ago
  > Miners could stand ready to do that “Could,” or “are”? How many miners are doing this? How many would even want to?
  - kkjjkgjjgg 5y ago
    So far one issue has been getting one's hands on mining hardware in a reliable way, I think. Yesterday I heard Intel wants to offer mining hardware, so that could perhaps make it easier to install a miner in your wind farm or whatever.

Shamii 5y ago

This article is literally garbage. It completely ignores that what Bitcoin is doing is a total waste. Yes Bitcoin might use energy which might not could be used otherwise but it is literally better for our environment not to use this energy instead of creating heat and hardware garbage. He also tells a lie that Bitcoin miners are happy to only consume excess energy while Bitcoin miner do the total opposite: they consume as long as it is financial success NOT as long as the energy is unused. He even tries to make the new York Bitcoin power plant 'green' by stating that it also creates heat for the neighborhood and just bluntly ignores that this power plant consumes natural gas to calculate worthless hashes and heat. The fact is that plenty of countries ban Bitcoin mining because it disrupts there power network, because it undermines the financial control and because what also happens that people are now able to steal power. And yes in the USA there are people doing Bitcoin mining today and also paying for ac to cool it down and no one is doing Bitcoin mining because it's green (which it isn't) but because the energy price is lower as the hype of Bitcoin. That's the only reason. And it's the most shittiest reasons to burn through energy and hardware. Fuck you Bitcoin miners fu

usrbinbash 5y ago
> Yes Bitcoin might use energy which might not could be used otherwise Even using the electricity to literally just pump water uphill would be a better use than to pump it into the blorkchain: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pumped-storage_hydroelectricity https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pumped-storage_hydroelectricit... And if the world is looking for something to do with surplus electricity: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desalination#Energy_consumption https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desalination#Energy_consumptio... Considering the fact that 1/10th of the worlds population have no access to safe drinking water, this would be a far better use ;-)
vmception 5y ago
yeah we get it, it doesn't matter if any of those points improve or stop happening because at the end of the day your goal post will continue moving to "bitcoin is a total waste because I don't respect it anyway" and thats not an absolute for everyone.