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Validates my decision to self-host and donate to Baby Buddy: https://github.com/babybuddy/babybuddy https://github.com/babybuddy/babybuddy I figured all those

Validates my decision to self-host and donate to Baby Buddy: https://github.com/babybuddy/babybuddy https://github.com/babybuddy/babybuddy I figured all those “free” (and possibly even the paid) baby apps were likely doing all sorts of shady things with that data. One thing for me to use a period/fertility tracker for myself - quite another to throw my child’s data up to god knows who for god knows what ends long before he could possibly consent. If you don’t know why it matters how many diapers there have been in the last 24 hours and what kind of mess was in there, along with how often and how much milk was consumed, you’ve obviously not been the primary caretaker of an infant recently. If you don’t know why you’d want an app for that, ditto - “mommy brain” is real. Pro-tip: set up and test your Baby Buddy instance well before your due date - including having your partner try using it on their device.

64bittechie 5y ago
Maybe there is a market for paid apps and services that do not sell your data?
- cdubzzz 5y ago
  See my comment in another thread[0]. It doesn’t necessarily add much but my gut says probably not. Or if there is I would bet it’s just as or more niche than parents who would self-host their own app. But maybe I’m understanding the extent to which becoming a parent makes people think more about privacy as a priority? Definitely curious to know if anyone has done any real research on this generally — that is, whether there is a real market for the “privacy focused” version of any product that would have other cheaper, less privacy focused options. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29993024 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29993024
fartcannon 5y ago
I also used baby buddy and it was great.
citiguy 5y ago
I created a simple spreadsheet that we printed out / filled out each week. It worked great. No need for an app.
- trelane 5y ago
  Same. Sometimes, low tech is just fine. :)
- vharuck 5y ago
  Same thing I'm doing right now. I intended to copy the data into CSV files to get a better sense of tracking, but (surprise surprise) I haven't kept up in what little free time the kid allows. So far, the biggest benefits to tracking: - Knowing how long we have until the next feeding. I swear he has a three hour timer in him somewhere. - Knowing if one of us already gave him certain medications today. - Calculating average amounts over the week before a pediatrician visit. And, like all logging, it only shows its value in hindsight.
  - MandieD 5y ago
    You can always throw away data you logged but later realize you don’t need, but you can’t go back in time and log data you now wish you had. The benefit to the Baby Buddy approach is that whatever device with a web browser was closest to hand was where I could enter what just happened, or happened a few hours ago, because it was highly unlikely that I’d have entered a bunch of stuff I’d kept on paper into CSV.
Al-Khwarizmi 5y ago
The extent to which "it matters" is subjective, I guess. I'm now the parent of a 2-year-old toddler and we didn't track any of that, we just were on the look for obvious signs of alarm but if everything looked normal we didn't count any of those variables. Everything went fine. In fact, we almost had a problem due to "too much data tracking": in the first weeks, there was a point in which the baby hadn't gained weight for a week so the pediatrician suggested to give up exclusive breastfeeding and give him some formula to complement it. After some thought, we decided against it: we were quite aware of the benefits of exclusive breastfeeding, saw that the baby was otherwise looking and behaving fine, thought that the data on such short term maybe would not be significant, and gave him another week without changing anything. Next week, the baby was growing just fine, and he was exclusively breastfed until 6 months. That said, if there's something I have learned as a parent is not to judge other parents, because no one knows what the right style of parenting is (and even when we know that option X is better than option Y, real life often makes it impossible to implement). So if data tracking apps work for some parents, more power to them, of course.
dtech 5y ago
This kinda shows the problem with self-hosting though. Expectant parents just want an app they can directly use. Even something as simple as Heroku is outside the tech skills of 95% of parents.
- MandieD 5y ago
  Yeah, I wouldn’t bother suggesting it outside of some place like HN.
  - cdubzzz 5y ago
    Baby Buddy maintainer here — I have often thought about trying to turn the app in to a product for non-techie parents and still respect user privacy but I feel like that is still a hard sell (i.e., I don’t think I’d get far just being more privacy focused than other options out there). Also the options have actually improved a pretty good deal since the time I started working on this for our family (from a usability, if not privacy POV). Thanks, by the way, for contributing! We have long passed our own need for the app with our little ones but it has been a joy to maintain and interact with Baby Buddy’s users over the years.
    - MandieD 5y ago
      Baby Buddy is a large part of why I was able to resist the well-meant pressure to just switch him to formula when breastfeeding wasn’t working out right away, and being compelled to log stuff from the beginning actually calmed me down a couple of times, so thank you for continuing to maintain a way to collect data that really helped us out in a way that respects my son’s long-term privacy :)
darkwater 5y ago
> If you don’t know why it matters how many diapers there have been in the last 24 hours and what kind of mess was in there, along with how often and how much milk was consumed, you’ve obviously not been the primary caretaker of an infant recently. I don't want to downplay your software and your effort but my wife and I raised two wonderful baby girls without any app tracking how many diapers we changed or how many poo they did. We only had to be a bit more "strict" on weight-gain tracking for the 1st one during her first 2 months or so because she was born quite small and we had some issues breastfeeding her at the beginning. I understand there might be situations where it is useful to track some data of the infant but I would say it's just if there is some underlying condition.
- MandieD 5y ago
  Hm. I should have said “why it might matter” because not everyone ends up with a baby surprisingly uninterested in nursing…
bregma 5y ago
We raised three children without tracking data on their metabolic processes. We nursed them when they were hungry, changed them when they were moist or stinky, and comforted them when they were upset. The only thing we really measured is how little sleep we got. They have all grown into fine adults. I have observed that one of the biggest causes of bad relationships between parents and their children -- and subsequent life problems for the children -- is when parents try to assert too much control. It's a fine line between responsibility and control, and the quality and quantity of information you need for the former before it becomes more of the latter. The question is: do you need what the app gives you to fulfill your responsibilities, or do you just want it to satisfy your urges?
- technothrasher 5y ago
  Bah! Back when I was a young parent, we had to track our baby's processes on stone tablets, that were on top of mountain, scratched with our bare fingers, and still our boy grew up into a fine knob thatcher. > do you need what the app gives you to fulfill your responsibilities, or do you just want it to satisfy your urges? There's a third option, which is that while not strictly necessary, certain tools can help make a job easier, so why not take advantage of them? I agree with you about having to be careful about control vs responsibility when raising a kid, but I'm not sure a baby poo tracker is crossing that line.
  - bregma 5y ago
    > certain tools can help make a job easier Sure. If you insist on doing the unnecessary, possibly harmful job there are plenty of consumer grifts you can join that are waiting to relieve you of your money or exploit you for profit in some other way, like tracking and reselling your personal information. There is, after all, a sucker born every minute. Some of them have recently become parents. But that's not a third option. That's just satisfying your urges.
    - hhmc 5y ago
      This feels like really bad faith argumentation. You haven't engaged with the point being made -- that the tools _might_ actually make the job easier. You're just reiterating your view that "I didn't need these tools, so they are at best worthless and and at worst exploitative"
hdjjhhvvhga 5y ago
I had a look at the screenshot and frankly, that sounds terrible. I mean, you are already stressed about all your new parental duties. Now you add the stress of the app. This is the opposite of what you need - that is, being relaxed.
hluska 5y ago
Hey pal, I have no idea why everyone is lining up to tell you that you’re wrong. I loved reading your story and it gave me a lot of warm, fuzzy feelings from when my child was little. Our little people are all different and we all love our little people so we adapt to them the best we can. (My child is almost six, so at this point, ‘she adapts me’.) :) You seem like a wonderful parent and I really dig your attention to detail. :) Thanks for sharing Baby Buddy. My child was almost two when it was released. But holy crow, that would have been helpful!! :) The times they are a-changin’
- MandieD 5y ago
  Baby Buddy helped me out in large part because even before I had a kid, I was kind of scatterbrained. After… oh god. I kind of get why a lot of people react negatively. If you had the happy path, you think lactation consultants are ridiculous (what’s more natural than a baby sucking a boob?!), and of course the baby’s going to cry when he’s hungry, and he’ll be hungry when he needs to eat. And what are grandmothers and aunts and friends with older kids for, but to help the new mother learn her job and to point out to her when they think something’s not quite right with the baby that they’re constantly dropping by to cuddle? Hi. Welcome to having a kid an ocean away from your close friends, a decade after your mother died, at a point in the pandemic when we were hearing promising news about vaccines being developed and quick, cheap tests on demand were a fantasy.
a45a33s 5y ago
we used a piece of paper to log the diapers for the first kid. 2nd kid with more experience we just kept an eye on things and used our judgment. not sure why you need an app for this

64bittechie 5y ago

Maybe there is a market for paid apps and services that do not sell your data?

cdubzzz 5y ago
See my comment in another thread[0]. It doesn’t necessarily add much but my gut says probably not. Or if there is I would bet it’s just as or more niche than parents who would self-host their own app. But maybe I’m understanding the extent to which becoming a parent makes people think more about privacy as a priority? Definitely curious to know if anyone has done any real research on this generally — that is, whether there is a real market for the “privacy focused” version of any product that would have other cheaper, less privacy focused options. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29993024 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29993024

fartcannon 5y ago

I also used baby buddy and it was great.

citiguy 5y ago

I created a simple spreadsheet that we printed out / filled out each week. It worked great. No need for an app.

trelane 5y ago
Same. Sometimes, low tech is just fine. :)
vharuck 5y ago
Same thing I'm doing right now. I intended to copy the data into CSV files to get a better sense of tracking, but (surprise surprise) I haven't kept up in what little free time the kid allows. So far, the biggest benefits to tracking: - Knowing how long we have until the next feeding. I swear he has a three hour timer in him somewhere. - Knowing if one of us already gave him certain medications today. - Calculating average amounts over the week before a pediatrician visit. And, like all logging, it only shows its value in hindsight.
- MandieD 5y ago
  You can always throw away data you logged but later realize you don’t need, but you can’t go back in time and log data you now wish you had. The benefit to the Baby Buddy approach is that whatever device with a web browser was closest to hand was where I could enter what just happened, or happened a few hours ago, because it was highly unlikely that I’d have entered a bunch of stuff I’d kept on paper into CSV.

Al-Khwarizmi 5y ago

The extent to which "it matters" is subjective, I guess. I'm now the parent of a 2-year-old toddler and we didn't track any of that, we just were on the look for obvious signs of alarm but if everything looked normal we didn't count any of those variables. Everything went fine. In fact, we almost had a problem due to "too much data tracking": in the first weeks, there was a point in which the baby hadn't gained weight for a week so the pediatrician suggested to give up exclusive breastfeeding and give him some formula to complement it. After some thought, we decided against it: we were quite aware of the benefits of exclusive breastfeeding, saw that the baby was otherwise looking and behaving fine, thought that the data on such short term maybe would not be significant, and gave him another week without changing anything. Next week, the baby was growing just fine, and he was exclusively breastfed until 6 months. That said, if there's something I have learned as a parent is not to judge other parents, because no one knows what the right style of parenting is (and even when we know that option X is better than option Y, real life often makes it impossible to implement). So if data tracking apps work for some parents, more power to them, of course.

dtech 5y ago

This kinda shows the problem with self-hosting though. Expectant parents just want an app they can directly use. Even something as simple as Heroku is outside the tech skills of 95% of parents.

MandieD 5y ago
Yeah, I wouldn’t bother suggesting it outside of some place like HN.
- cdubzzz 5y ago
  Baby Buddy maintainer here — I have often thought about trying to turn the app in to a product for non-techie parents and still respect user privacy but I feel like that is still a hard sell (i.e., I don’t think I’d get far just being more privacy focused than other options out there). Also the options have actually improved a pretty good deal since the time I started working on this for our family (from a usability, if not privacy POV). Thanks, by the way, for contributing! We have long passed our own need for the app with our little ones but it has been a joy to maintain and interact with Baby Buddy’s users over the years.
  - MandieD 5y ago
    Baby Buddy is a large part of why I was able to resist the well-meant pressure to just switch him to formula when breastfeeding wasn’t working out right away, and being compelled to log stuff from the beginning actually calmed me down a couple of times, so thank you for continuing to maintain a way to collect data that really helped us out in a way that respects my son’s long-term privacy :)

darkwater 5y ago

> If you don’t know why it matters how many diapers there have been in the last 24 hours and what kind of mess was in there, along with how often and how much milk was consumed, you’ve obviously not been the primary caretaker of an infant recently. I don't want to downplay your software and your effort but my wife and I raised two wonderful baby girls without any app tracking how many diapers we changed or how many poo they did. We only had to be a bit more "strict" on weight-gain tracking for the 1st one during her first 2 months or so because she was born quite small and we had some issues breastfeeding her at the beginning. I understand there might be situations where it is useful to track some data of the infant but I would say it's just if there is some underlying condition.

MandieD 5y ago
Hm. I should have said “why it might matter” because not everyone ends up with a baby surprisingly uninterested in nursing…

bregma 5y ago

We raised three children without tracking data on their metabolic processes. We nursed them when they were hungry, changed them when they were moist or stinky, and comforted them when they were upset. The only thing we really measured is how little sleep we got. They have all grown into fine adults. I have observed that one of the biggest causes of bad relationships between parents and their children -- and subsequent life problems for the children -- is when parents try to assert too much control. It's a fine line between responsibility and control, and the quality and quantity of information you need for the former before it becomes more of the latter. The question is: do you need what the app gives you to fulfill your responsibilities, or do you just want it to satisfy your urges?

technothrasher 5y ago
Bah! Back when I was a young parent, we had to track our baby's processes on stone tablets, that were on top of mountain, scratched with our bare fingers, and still our boy grew up into a fine knob thatcher. > do you need what the app gives you to fulfill your responsibilities, or do you just want it to satisfy your urges? There's a third option, which is that while not strictly necessary, certain tools can help make a job easier, so why not take advantage of them? I agree with you about having to be careful about control vs responsibility when raising a kid, but I'm not sure a baby poo tracker is crossing that line.
- bregma 5y ago
  > certain tools can help make a job easier Sure. If you insist on doing the unnecessary, possibly harmful job there are plenty of consumer grifts you can join that are waiting to relieve you of your money or exploit you for profit in some other way, like tracking and reselling your personal information. There is, after all, a sucker born every minute. Some of them have recently become parents. But that's not a third option. That's just satisfying your urges.
  - hhmc 5y ago
    This feels like really bad faith argumentation. You haven't engaged with the point being made -- that the tools _might_ actually make the job easier. You're just reiterating your view that "I didn't need these tools, so they are at best worthless and and at worst exploitative"

hdjjhhvvhga 5y ago

I had a look at the screenshot and frankly, that sounds terrible. I mean, you are already stressed about all your new parental duties. Now you add the stress of the app. This is the opposite of what you need - that is, being relaxed.

hluska 5y ago

Hey pal, I have no idea why everyone is lining up to tell you that you’re wrong. I loved reading your story and it gave me a lot of warm, fuzzy feelings from when my child was little. Our little people are all different and we all love our little people so we adapt to them the best we can. (My child is almost six, so at this point, ‘she adapts me’.) :) You seem like a wonderful parent and I really dig your attention to detail. :) Thanks for sharing Baby Buddy. My child was almost two when it was released. But holy crow, that would have been helpful!! :) The times they are a-changin’

MandieD 5y ago
Baby Buddy helped me out in large part because even before I had a kid, I was kind of scatterbrained. After… oh god. I kind of get why a lot of people react negatively. If you had the happy path, you think lactation consultants are ridiculous (what’s more natural than a baby sucking a boob?!), and of course the baby’s going to cry when he’s hungry, and he’ll be hungry when he needs to eat. And what are grandmothers and aunts and friends with older kids for, but to help the new mother learn her job and to point out to her when they think something’s not quite right with the baby that they’re constantly dropping by to cuddle? Hi. Welcome to having a kid an ocean away from your close friends, a decade after your mother died, at a point in the pandemic when we were hearing promising news about vaccines being developed and quick, cheap tests on demand were a fantasy.

a45a33s 5y ago

we used a piece of paper to log the diapers for the first kid. 2nd kid with more experience we just kept an eye on things and used our judgment. not sure why you need an app for this