4 ms·

It’s a sad fact of life there will always be injustices. People can still make good choices and have positive outcomes in bad environments. We need to stop try

It’s a sad fact of life there will always be injustices. People can still make good choices and have positive outcomes in bad environments. We need to stop trying to be devoid of personal responsibility as a society.

TameAntelope 5y ago
The fact that you think this has anything to do with personal responsibility makes it clear you don’t understand the circumstances these people find themselves in.
- jtbayly 5y ago
  Is there anybody in the world under your philosophy that bears personal responsibility for anything immoral that they have done?
  - TameAntelope 5y ago
    This has nothing to do with my personal philosophy and everything to do with what motivates people. Some people are bad yes, but the vast majority of people are not, and would not do bad things if they felt they had alternatives. Why is it important to you to focus on the bad people, when there are many, many more people who aren't bad?
    - jtbayly 5y ago
      It has everything to do with your personal philosophy. I haven’t met a good person in my life. Here’s your philosophy: “Some people are bad yes, but the vast majority of people are not” You’re telling me the vast majority of people wouldn’t take advantage of others if they ended up with serious power. History and personal experience tell me otherwise. People are not basically good.
      - TameAntelope 5y ago
        That's not a philosophy, that's rigorous observational results from a plethora of psychology studies.[0][1][2][3][4][5][6][7] (and so on) This isn't opinion, and these are just easily accessible sources. There are a lot more, and a lot more rigorous sources, if you're actually interested. The alignment of incentives and the perception (or lack thereof) of choice does a lot more work than you apparently are aware of. At this point, it seems like I'm trying to reason you out of an opinion you didn't reason yourself into, which is both sad and futile, so I'm going to stop. [0] https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/scientists-probe-human-nature-and-discover-we-are-good-after-all/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/scientists-probe-... [1] https://greatergood.berkeley.edu/article/item/how_science_helps_find_good https://greatergood.berkeley.edu/article/item/how_science_he... [2] https://www.zmescience.com/science/humans-are-good-in-nature-science-finds-042343/ https://www.zmescience.com/science/humans-are-good-in-nature... [3] https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/social-animals/201912/people-are-naturally-good-groups-are-not-really https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/social-animals/20191... [4] https://www.vox.com/conversations/2017/5/23/15516752/science-human-nature-free-will-robert-sapolsky-interview https://www.vox.com/conversations/2017/5/23/15516752/science... [5] https://www.nbcnews.com/better/health/good-company-why-we-need-other-people-be-happy-ncna836106 https://www.nbcnews.com/better/health/good-company-why-we-ne... [6] https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/oct/14/selfish-proof-ego-humans-inherently-good https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/oct/14/selfis... [7] https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20130114-are-we-naturally-good-or-bad https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20130114-are-we-naturally...

TameAntelope 5y ago

The fact that you think this has anything to do with personal responsibility makes it clear you don’t understand the circumstances these people find themselves in.

jtbayly 5y ago
Is there anybody in the world under your philosophy that bears personal responsibility for anything immoral that they have done?
- TameAntelope 5y ago
  This has nothing to do with my personal philosophy and everything to do with what motivates people. Some people are bad yes, but the vast majority of people are not, and would not do bad things if they felt they had alternatives. Why is it important to you to focus on the bad people, when there are many, many more people who aren't bad?
  - jtbayly 5y ago
    It has everything to do with your personal philosophy. I haven’t met a good person in my life. Here’s your philosophy: “Some people are bad yes, but the vast majority of people are not” You’re telling me the vast majority of people wouldn’t take advantage of others if they ended up with serious power. History and personal experience tell me otherwise. People are not basically good.
    - TameAntelope 5y ago
      That's not a philosophy, that's rigorous observational results from a plethora of psychology studies.[0][1][2][3][4][5][6][7] (and so on) This isn't opinion, and these are just easily accessible sources. There are a lot more, and a lot more rigorous sources, if you're actually interested. The alignment of incentives and the perception (or lack thereof) of choice does a lot more work than you apparently are aware of. At this point, it seems like I'm trying to reason you out of an opinion you didn't reason yourself into, which is both sad and futile, so I'm going to stop. [0] https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/scientists-probe-human-nature-and-discover-we-are-good-after-all/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/scientists-probe-... [1] https://greatergood.berkeley.edu/article/item/how_science_helps_find_good https://greatergood.berkeley.edu/article/item/how_science_he... [2] https://www.zmescience.com/science/humans-are-good-in-nature-science-finds-042343/ https://www.zmescience.com/science/humans-are-good-in-nature... [3] https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/social-animals/201912/people-are-naturally-good-groups-are-not-really https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/social-animals/20191... [4] https://www.vox.com/conversations/2017/5/23/15516752/science-human-nature-free-will-robert-sapolsky-interview https://www.vox.com/conversations/2017/5/23/15516752/science... [5] https://www.nbcnews.com/better/health/good-company-why-we-need-other-people-be-happy-ncna836106 https://www.nbcnews.com/better/health/good-company-why-we-ne... [6] https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/oct/14/selfish-proof-ego-humans-inherently-good https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/oct/14/selfis... [7] https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20130114-are-we-naturally-good-or-bad https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20130114-are-we-naturally...