4 ms·

Metro IE10 will be "Plug-In Free" (no Flash, no Silverlight)

54 points by HardyLeung 15y ago

ck2 15y ago
Does this mean IE10 finally supports CSS3 animations like firefox/webkit? How about CSS3 text-shadow and a dozen other CSS3 rules? IE9 is still holding back the web, especially since it won't run on XP at all.
- Skalman 15y ago
  IE10 supports lots of things - e.g. animations and text-shadow. http://caniuse.com/#compare=y&b1=ie+9&b2=ie+10 http://caniuse.com/#compare=y&b1=ie+9&b2=ie+10
- barista 15y ago
  I don't get how you conclude that the browser is holding the web back. I think its the people who resist upgrading a decade old operating system or moving to a different browser.
  - Yaggo 15y ago
    ... or webdevs/companies who continue to support legacy platforms (and thus not force people to update). Clients are clueless anyway.
    - beedogs 15y ago
      Anyone and anything still using IE6 should be taken out back and shot.
      - hellweaver666 15y ago
        Does that include the 5% of my customers that bring in over £100,000 GBP per year? I don't think so. I don't know about you, but I certainly can't afford to throw away 100k every year.
      - AndyJPartridge 15y ago
        Whilst I'd love to agree, lots of people in my world (the UK insurance industry) don't get a choice. When reporting issues I often say "Can you upgrade your browser?" to which I get the reply "No, it's what the IT department put on all of the machines, I use (BrowserX) at home though." I suspect this is common.
mootothemax 15y ago
I think the author's missing one major point: Microsoft is heavily pushing the "touch" interface on Windows 8. I've tried imagining using Flash with a touch interface, and I think it'd be extremely painful.
- ordinary 15y ago
  Why? What is it about Flash that makes you feel it couldn't work well with a touch interface?
  - Flow 15y ago
    Even in september 2011 Flash doesn't work well with keyboard and mouse. If you have clicked inside a Flash-box then you can forget using the keyboard shortcuts your web browser offer. Edit: I really think one shouldn't be able to down-vote without first writing a comment explaining why...
    - ordinary 15y ago
      Though it is indeed very annoying that Flash grabs all keyboard input, I don't think that has anything to do with the matter at hand, considering that touch interfaces are infinitely more like mice than keyboards. I just don't see the same problem occuring.
      - deleted 15y ago
        [deleted]
      - justincormack 15y ago
        I can imagine similar issues, like gestures that span both flash and web.
      - keeperofdakeys 15y ago
        The problem with Flash is that it is a plugin, and not part of the browser. Being a plugin, flash has no real way of communicating with the browser (yes, an extension can, but a plugin is not an extension). So the browser leaves a space for the plugin, letting it do what it wants, and shares exclusive focus locks with the plugin. This means you are either in Flash's context, or the browser's context. So by design, flash can't do anything but grab all the keyboard commands. Then we get to html5. This is a part of the browser. The browser can suspend execution, ensure gestures work before the program responds or any other kind of integration. As for mouse vs touch screen, I would find a flash site designed for a mouse quite annoying to use with a touch screen. Mouse environments are designed with elements close together, so you don't need to drag your mouse far. You can also use 'hover' effects, where your mouse hovers over an element. This is opposed to a touch screen, where I can easily move my hand/finger across the screen and can't 'hover' over elements. A touch screen also requires bigger hit targets, as you have less accuracy than a mouse.
Flow 15y ago
Maybe because Metro IE10 runs on WinRT rather than Win32? Just a guess.
dangrossman 15y ago
The title's a bit misleading, implying that there's more than one IE10 (Metro and ?), and that IE10 will not support plugins. It will, but they won't be available with the Metro UI enabled. If you need them, you press one button ("Use Desktop View") to switch UIs and you have them.
- HardyLeung 15y ago
  I don't know how Metro IE and Desktop IE are separate or one and the same, but from what I read, only Metro IE would be available to some devices, most notably ARM tablets.
  - shawnz 15y ago
    AFAIK, Metro is always available, but desktop IE is only available on x86 (or the like).
    - TomOfTTB 15y ago
      That hasn't been confirmed and probably isn't true. John Gruber came up with that theory based on what he felt were hints from Microsoft but that seems to be dis-proven by this ARM tablet running Windows Desktop: http://thisismynext.com/2011/09/14/nvidia-kal-el-windows-8-tablet-hands-on/ http://thisismynext.com/2011/09/14/nvidia-kal-el-windows-8-t...
gwalker 15y ago
The article is infoq is more balanced http://www.infoq.com/news/2011/09/Metro-Plug-ins http://www.infoq.com/news/2011/09/Metro-Plug-ins The fact that MS may abandon Silverlight and other Windows technologies is far more significant that the "look, look Apple are right again" angle.
sainib 15y ago
no flash, no silverlight, NO USEFUL
LeafStorm 15y ago
Perhaps Microsoft is finally beginning to realize that Web developers are moving on from IE because Microsoft was trying to do their own thing while all the other browsers were moving in a different direction, and now they are trying to catch up to get usage and respectability back.
Karunamon 15y ago
And I suppose that means no Adblock, no Noscript, no Lastpass. Welp. I know what browser I WON'T be using when Win8 lands.
- paulirish 15y ago
  The plugin-free aspect is only for their windows metro-style apps. The IE10 browser will still allow plugins.
  - drzaiusapelord 15y ago
    Considering how precious bandwidth is on mobile networks, the lack of adblock is killing me. I don't understand why the mobile OS makers wont open up a browser API for plugins. I guess I can root it and put in a giant hosts file that blocks ads, but that seems that it could lead to issues. I browse full-sites, not mobile, on my tablet, so when I use 3G, I'm still downloading large animated gif ads and other useless bandwidth hogs. I have an android tablet and an android phone. I rarely use flash, but when I do its when there's no alternative. It works crappily, but it beats sitting there and thinking "Oh well, I better go find a desktop."
metatronscube 15y ago
Die Flash...Die
bradleyland 15y ago
This has pretty serious implications for Adobe (captain obvious). Adobe isn't stupid though. The recent "HTML5 gallery" shows that they're serious about making tools that work with new standards-based web technology, but the big variable will be timing. Can they move quickly enough to stay ahead of it? There is no Adobe product that is the "de facto standard" for HTML5/JS/CSS3 authoring like Flash became in the nineties.

54 points by HardyLeung 15y ago

ck2 15y ago

Does this mean IE10 finally supports CSS3 animations like firefox/webkit? How about CSS3 text-shadow and a dozen other CSS3 rules? IE9 is still holding back the web, especially since it won't run on XP at all.

Skalman 15y ago
IE10 supports lots of things - e.g. animations and text-shadow. http://caniuse.com/#compare=y&b1=ie+9&b2=ie+10 http://caniuse.com/#compare=y&b1=ie+9&b2=ie+10
barista 15y ago
I don't get how you conclude that the browser is holding the web back. I think its the people who resist upgrading a decade old operating system or moving to a different browser.
- Yaggo 15y ago
  ... or webdevs/companies who continue to support legacy platforms (and thus not force people to update). Clients are clueless anyway.
  - beedogs 15y ago
    Anyone and anything still using IE6 should be taken out back and shot.
    - hellweaver666 15y ago
      Does that include the 5% of my customers that bring in over £100,000 GBP per year? I don't think so. I don't know about you, but I certainly can't afford to throw away 100k every year.
    - AndyJPartridge 15y ago
      Whilst I'd love to agree, lots of people in my world (the UK insurance industry) don't get a choice. When reporting issues I often say "Can you upgrade your browser?" to which I get the reply "No, it's what the IT department put on all of the machines, I use (BrowserX) at home though." I suspect this is common.

mootothemax 15y ago

I think the author's missing one major point: Microsoft is heavily pushing the "touch" interface on Windows 8. I've tried imagining using Flash with a touch interface, and I think it'd be extremely painful.

ordinary 15y ago
Why? What is it about Flash that makes you feel it couldn't work well with a touch interface?
- Flow 15y ago
  Even in september 2011 Flash doesn't work well with keyboard and mouse. If you have clicked inside a Flash-box then you can forget using the keyboard shortcuts your web browser offer. Edit: I really think one shouldn't be able to down-vote without first writing a comment explaining why...
  - ordinary 15y ago
    Though it is indeed very annoying that Flash grabs all keyboard input, I don't think that has anything to do with the matter at hand, considering that touch interfaces are infinitely more like mice than keyboards. I just don't see the same problem occuring.
    - deleted 15y ago
      [deleted]
    - justincormack 15y ago
      I can imagine similar issues, like gestures that span both flash and web.
    - keeperofdakeys 15y ago
      The problem with Flash is that it is a plugin, and not part of the browser. Being a plugin, flash has no real way of communicating with the browser (yes, an extension can, but a plugin is not an extension). So the browser leaves a space for the plugin, letting it do what it wants, and shares exclusive focus locks with the plugin. This means you are either in Flash's context, or the browser's context. So by design, flash can't do anything but grab all the keyboard commands. Then we get to html5. This is a part of the browser. The browser can suspend execution, ensure gestures work before the program responds or any other kind of integration. As for mouse vs touch screen, I would find a flash site designed for a mouse quite annoying to use with a touch screen. Mouse environments are designed with elements close together, so you don't need to drag your mouse far. You can also use 'hover' effects, where your mouse hovers over an element. This is opposed to a touch screen, where I can easily move my hand/finger across the screen and can't 'hover' over elements. A touch screen also requires bigger hit targets, as you have less accuracy than a mouse.

Flow 15y ago

Maybe because Metro IE10 runs on WinRT rather than Win32? Just a guess.

dangrossman 15y ago

The title's a bit misleading, implying that there's more than one IE10 (Metro and ?), and that IE10 will not support plugins. It will, but they won't be available with the Metro UI enabled. If you need them, you press one button ("Use Desktop View") to switch UIs and you have them.

HardyLeung 15y ago
I don't know how Metro IE and Desktop IE are separate or one and the same, but from what I read, only Metro IE would be available to some devices, most notably ARM tablets.
- shawnz 15y ago
  AFAIK, Metro is always available, but desktop IE is only available on x86 (or the like).
  - TomOfTTB 15y ago
    That hasn't been confirmed and probably isn't true. John Gruber came up with that theory based on what he felt were hints from Microsoft but that seems to be dis-proven by this ARM tablet running Windows Desktop: http://thisismynext.com/2011/09/14/nvidia-kal-el-windows-8-tablet-hands-on/ http://thisismynext.com/2011/09/14/nvidia-kal-el-windows-8-t...

gwalker 15y ago

The article is infoq is more balanced http://www.infoq.com/news/2011/09/Metro-Plug-ins http://www.infoq.com/news/2011/09/Metro-Plug-ins The fact that MS may abandon Silverlight and other Windows technologies is far more significant that the "look, look Apple are right again" angle.

sainib 15y ago

no flash, no silverlight, NO USEFUL

LeafStorm 15y ago

Perhaps Microsoft is finally beginning to realize that Web developers are moving on from IE because Microsoft was trying to do their own thing while all the other browsers were moving in a different direction, and now they are trying to catch up to get usage and respectability back.

Karunamon 15y ago

And I suppose that means no Adblock, no Noscript, no Lastpass. Welp. I know what browser I WON'T be using when Win8 lands.

paulirish 15y ago
The plugin-free aspect is only for their windows metro-style apps. The IE10 browser will still allow plugins.
- drzaiusapelord 15y ago
  Considering how precious bandwidth is on mobile networks, the lack of adblock is killing me. I don't understand why the mobile OS makers wont open up a browser API for plugins. I guess I can root it and put in a giant hosts file that blocks ads, but that seems that it could lead to issues. I browse full-sites, not mobile, on my tablet, so when I use 3G, I'm still downloading large animated gif ads and other useless bandwidth hogs. I have an android tablet and an android phone. I rarely use flash, but when I do its when there's no alternative. It works crappily, but it beats sitting there and thinking "Oh well, I better go find a desktop."

metatronscube 15y ago

Die Flash...Die

bradleyland 15y ago

This has pretty serious implications for Adobe (captain obvious). Adobe isn't stupid though. The recent "HTML5 gallery" shows that they're serious about making tools that work with new standards-based web technology, but the big variable will be timing. Can they move quickly enough to stay ahead of it? There is no Adobe product that is the "de facto standard" for HTML5/JS/CSS3 authoring like Flash became in the nineties.