4 ms·

If the ability exists, what's to stop them from using it? Good manners? And what's the incentive for someone to tell us, if they are? Become another Snowden or

by dilap 5y ago

If the ability exists, what's to stop them from using it? Good manners? And what's the incentive for someone to tell us, if they are? Become another Snowden or Assange or Manning? Not a very compelling outcome...

PeterisP 5y ago
The adversarial judicial system is supposed to restrict that by having the defendant's lawyers challenge the evidence and how it was obtained. The prosecution and police can't simply use inappropriate evidence. In some cases it's possible (and worth the effort) to do 'parallel construction' by getting a warrant for some other evidence confirming the same thing, but it's not something that can be done at scale without it being obvious.
- nerdponx 5y ago
  It's more than some cases, and yes it can be done at scale, to some extent: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-dea-sod-idUSBRE97409R20130805 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-dea-sod-idUSBRE97409R2013...
- ILMostro7 5y ago
  In the name of national security, often behind closed doors. Even if the funds are there to hire competent defense, which most of the time they're not, you're fighting an uphill battle.
- KptMarchewa 5y ago
  How would you defend in front of FISA court? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Foreign_Intelligence_Surveillance_Court https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Foreign_Intellig...
- snovv_crash 5y ago
  Blackmail by definition isn't used in court.
  - mschuster91 5y ago
    Of course it is, it's called "plea bargain" - defendants choose between pleading guilty for a pre-arranged punishment or the DA putting up a boatload of charges with the expected punishment excessively above the plea deal [1]. [1]: https://innocenceproject.org/guilty-pleas-on-the-rise-criminal-trials-on-the-decline/ https://innocenceproject.org/guilty-pleas-on-the-rise-crimin...
- BiteCode_dev 5y ago
  A fact doesn't need to be usable as evidence in court to be usable for blackmail. Anything that can make your life harder will do. They can find something that: - will put a you in a difficult position with friends and family - break trust in a business relationship - destroy your reputation in regard of the public - trigger costly investigations from a 3rd party - pressure you and take your energy, moral, money, time and health in the process
- aussiegreenie 5y ago
  That simply is not true. In most "Terrorism" cases there is always major restrictions on defence lawyers both accessing and challenging prosecution evidence. From the bullshit of Gitmo to Secret Trials in most Liberal Democracies, in the field of "National Security" lies are the norm.
staticassertion 5y ago
What is your incentive for not stealing things from a grocery store?

by dilap 5y ago

PeterisP 5y ago

The adversarial judicial system is supposed to restrict that by having the defendant's lawyers challenge the evidence and how it was obtained. The prosecution and police can't simply use inappropriate evidence. In some cases it's possible (and worth the effort) to do 'parallel construction' by getting a warrant for some other evidence confirming the same thing, but it's not something that can be done at scale without it being obvious.

nerdponx 5y ago
It's more than some cases, and yes it can be done at scale, to some extent: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-dea-sod-idUSBRE97409R20130805 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-dea-sod-idUSBRE97409R2013...
ILMostro7 5y ago
In the name of national security, often behind closed doors. Even if the funds are there to hire competent defense, which most of the time they're not, you're fighting an uphill battle.
KptMarchewa 5y ago
How would you defend in front of FISA court? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Foreign_Intelligence_Surveillance_Court https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Foreign_Intellig...
snovv_crash 5y ago
Blackmail by definition isn't used in court.
- mschuster91 5y ago
  Of course it is, it's called "plea bargain" - defendants choose between pleading guilty for a pre-arranged punishment or the DA putting up a boatload of charges with the expected punishment excessively above the plea deal [1]. [1]: https://innocenceproject.org/guilty-pleas-on-the-rise-criminal-trials-on-the-decline/ https://innocenceproject.org/guilty-pleas-on-the-rise-crimin...
BiteCode_dev 5y ago
A fact doesn't need to be usable as evidence in court to be usable for blackmail. Anything that can make your life harder will do. They can find something that: - will put a you in a difficult position with friends and family - break trust in a business relationship - destroy your reputation in regard of the public - trigger costly investigations from a 3rd party - pressure you and take your energy, moral, money, time and health in the process
aussiegreenie 5y ago
That simply is not true. In most "Terrorism" cases there is always major restrictions on defence lawyers both accessing and challenging prosecution evidence. From the bullshit of Gitmo to Secret Trials in most Liberal Democracies, in the field of "National Security" lies are the norm.

staticassertion 5y ago

What is your incentive for not stealing things from a grocery store?