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> These thefts not only hurt the companies but also hurt each buyer who will have to pay indirectly for the added cost of operations. Is this damage more then

> These thefts not only hurt the companies but also hurt each buyer who will have to pay indirectly for the added cost of operations. Is this damage more then the cost of prosecuting and punishing the thieves? If not, it's not worth it.

pempem 5y ago
Well, first they need to be caught and brought up on charges. Then they can be prosecuted. The bigger question is where even is the LAPD?
- fennecfoxen 5y ago
  Per the letter, the question is NOT, "where even is the LAPD." It is, "where are the Los Angeles County prosecutors?" And the answer Union Pacific provides is, "letting these people who are arrested go free with a plea deal for simple trespassing."
- zaroth 5y ago
  They are being caught and arrested. Then the DA lets them go, so they go back and steal more, and spread the word that nothing happens even when you do get caught.
mc32 5y ago
Non-prosecution sends a signal "it's okay, we will not prosecute you". Less scrupulous people learn there is no prosecution and this becomes a routine drag on rail commerce. In Nigeria you get people who hijack petrol transportation --often times they lead to fiery explosions. It's not a path we should want to devolve to. The middle ages had highway men. We want to avoid going backwards.
xyzzyz 5y ago
> Is this damage more then the cost of prosecuting and punishing the thieves? If not, it's not worth it. This naive first order thinking is why we can’t have nice things. Yes, prosecuting a guy for stealing $100 headphones might cost more than the merchandise, but you cannot think about this in isolation from broader social context. By showing that you will not prosecute crimes under certain monetary value, you’re sending a signal that these can now be done with no consequence, in effect enabling more and more crime to happen. It’s not about a pair of headphones, it’s about the career of crime for the perp you’re enabling, and the crime careers of the imitators.
- cardiffspaceman 5y ago
  I don't think this is one guy stealing one box from a huge boxcar or container. It's multiple packages stolen at once. It would be too much work to scatter all that trash along the tracks, if it were many onesy-twosy thefts.
chasd00 5y ago
i wonder if the cheapest option is better locks on the containers
- fennecfoxen 5y ago
  Better locks only help until the point where it's easier to mangle the shipping container itself, bypassing the lock entirely, and impenetrable containers are needlessly expensive.
- Rebelgecko 5y ago
  Are there any practical locks that can't be defeated by an angle grinder in 5 minutes or less?
- natch 5y ago
  I guess you haven’t heard of a Sawzall. Who even needs a door?
  - swearwolf 5y ago
    Or a cordless angle grinder.
    - jrnichols 5y ago
      the same tools that thieves are using to steal catalytic converters all over california too.
    - natch 5y ago
      Well they said “better lock” meaning, in the limit, “better than your angle grinder,” so I went in a different direction, the wall.
fennecfoxen 5y ago
> Is this damage more then the cost of prosecuting and punishing the thieves? If not, it's not worth it. It's not a question of whether this damage is more, it's a question of whether the prosecution would reduce the total amount of future-damage that occurs as well. People who are in a jail are not stealing. People who expect significant risk of significant jail time are also not stealing, while those who expect minimal risk might be. These factors easily outweigh the cost of any single theft.
- Miner49er 5y ago
  This is completely one sided. You also have to look at the future damage on the other side. The 2nd and 3rd and more order societal cost of jailing someone, etc.
avalys 5y ago
What does a single prosecution and court case cost? A few thousand dollars, at a minimum. So you are saying any crime that causes less than a few thousand dollars worth of damage is not worth prosecuting? How would you like it if I were to break in to your house through a window (a $1,000 expense) and steal your $2,500 MacBook Pro? The $3,500 in damages is less than the cost of identifying, arresting, prosecuting and punishing me. Not worth it - just let it go?
- Miner49er 5y ago
  This is already how it is. Police rarely do anything in that type of break in.

pempem 5y ago

Well, first they need to be caught and brought up on charges. Then they can be prosecuted. The bigger question is where even is the LAPD?

fennecfoxen 5y ago
Per the letter, the question is NOT, "where even is the LAPD." It is, "where are the Los Angeles County prosecutors?" And the answer Union Pacific provides is, "letting these people who are arrested go free with a plea deal for simple trespassing."
zaroth 5y ago
They are being caught and arrested. Then the DA lets them go, so they go back and steal more, and spread the word that nothing happens even when you do get caught.

mc32 5y ago

Non-prosecution sends a signal "it's okay, we will not prosecute you". Less scrupulous people learn there is no prosecution and this becomes a routine drag on rail commerce. In Nigeria you get people who hijack petrol transportation --often times they lead to fiery explosions. It's not a path we should want to devolve to. The middle ages had highway men. We want to avoid going backwards.

xyzzyz 5y ago

> Is this damage more then the cost of prosecuting and punishing the thieves? If not, it's not worth it. This naive first order thinking is why we can’t have nice things. Yes, prosecuting a guy for stealing $100 headphones might cost more than the merchandise, but you cannot think about this in isolation from broader social context. By showing that you will not prosecute crimes under certain monetary value, you’re sending a signal that these can now be done with no consequence, in effect enabling more and more crime to happen. It’s not about a pair of headphones, it’s about the career of crime for the perp you’re enabling, and the crime careers of the imitators.

cardiffspaceman 5y ago
I don't think this is one guy stealing one box from a huge boxcar or container. It's multiple packages stolen at once. It would be too much work to scatter all that trash along the tracks, if it were many onesy-twosy thefts.

chasd00 5y ago

i wonder if the cheapest option is better locks on the containers

fennecfoxen 5y ago
Better locks only help until the point where it's easier to mangle the shipping container itself, bypassing the lock entirely, and impenetrable containers are needlessly expensive.
Rebelgecko 5y ago
Are there any practical locks that can't be defeated by an angle grinder in 5 minutes or less?
natch 5y ago
I guess you haven’t heard of a Sawzall. Who even needs a door?
- swearwolf 5y ago
  Or a cordless angle grinder.
  - jrnichols 5y ago
    the same tools that thieves are using to steal catalytic converters all over california too.
  - natch 5y ago
    Well they said “better lock” meaning, in the limit, “better than your angle grinder,” so I went in a different direction, the wall.

fennecfoxen 5y ago

> Is this damage more then the cost of prosecuting and punishing the thieves? If not, it's not worth it. It's not a question of whether this damage is more, it's a question of whether the prosecution would reduce the total amount of future-damage that occurs as well. People who are in a jail are not stealing. People who expect significant risk of significant jail time are also not stealing, while those who expect minimal risk might be. These factors easily outweigh the cost of any single theft.

Miner49er 5y ago
This is completely one sided. You also have to look at the future damage on the other side. The 2nd and 3rd and more order societal cost of jailing someone, etc.

avalys 5y ago

What does a single prosecution and court case cost? A few thousand dollars, at a minimum. So you are saying any crime that causes less than a few thousand dollars worth of damage is not worth prosecuting? How would you like it if I were to break in to your house through a window (a $1,000 expense) and steal your $2,500 MacBook Pro? The $3,500 in damages is less than the cost of identifying, arresting, prosecuting and punishing me. Not worth it - just let it go?

Miner49er 5y ago
This is already how it is. Police rarely do anything in that type of break in.