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There was no "fully self driving" in play with this accident. The driver has the responsibility to control the car. He let the car drive through a red light.

by jlv2 5y ago

There was no "fully self driving" in play with this accident. The driver has the responsibility to control the car. He let the car drive through a red light. He's wholly at fault. (for background: I've driven tens of thousands of miles using Autopilot in both a Model S and Model X, on both local roads and highways)

vanusa 5y ago
As long at Tesla continues to willfully and fraudulently push a product called "Full Self Driving" -- onto a customer base they know to be largely naive and unsophisticated -- they share responsibility for whatever death and carnage inevitably results from this cynical and manipulative course of action.
- JPKab 5y ago
  I'm always fascinated by this urge to push individual lapses and judgment onto large and wealthy entities. I own a Tesla Model 3 and I have chosen not to purchase the full self-driving package nor do I intend to rent it. I don't think the technology is worth it at this point to me personally. When you own the vehicle, it is very clear that the autopilot mode is simply a lane assist system. They have messages flashing all over the screen stating that it will not stop at stop signs or red lights. It's not like it's hidden from anybody and instead is blatantly displayed with no way to stop it from displaying every time it is activated. This driver was abusing a system that is meant to reduce fatigue. He should bear the consequences. Those of us who enjoy the reduction fatigue when driving from Denver to Omaha like I've had to do recently, should not have the feature disabled because of his irresponsibility.
  - vanusa 5y ago
    Do you think the product name "Full Self Driving" has anything to do with reality?
    - dml2135 5y ago
      Tesla bears some responsibility, but it's also on an individual to sniff out bullshit when necessary, and not be gullible to the point of committing negligent homicide. When you operate heavy machinery, it's your responsibility to read the owner's manual, and not just listen to the marketing.
    - idop 5y ago
      "Full Self Driving" means "Part Self Driving"? What a country!
    - JPKab 5y ago
      He wasn't using Full Self Driving, nor was he a customer. Autopilot != FSD. Autopilot comes with the vehicle. Full Self Driving is an add-on. He was on Autopilot. But let's not the facts or details stop us.
      - vanusa 5y ago
        You may answer the question, if you wish.
- lupire 5y ago
  The customer base are rich and can take care of themselves. Everyone else on the road is who need to be protected.
- JPKab 5y ago
  The product being used was not "Full Self Driving". He was using "Autopilot" which comes with the vehicle. FSD is a completely separate, and expensive, upgrade. Thoroughly enjoying the completely uninformed comments on this.
  - TheCoelacanth 5y ago
    "Autopilot" is still highly misleading.
    - thehappypm 5y ago
      Maybe to you. “Autopilot” is a term I don’t think has an incredibly clear meaning. Planes are known to have autopilot, but I think of it like “we’ve reached cruising altitude, going to point this bird at LGA and let the autopilot keep us on the right route”. I don’t know what the analogy would be for cars. Maybe something like adaptive cruise control plus lane keeping and auto braking?
      - vanusa 5y ago
        Then call it "adaptive cruise control" and be done with it. There's only one reason they pick the term "autopilot" -- and that is to give people the impression that these cars have magical powers that they do not, in fact have. And until proven otherwise, most likely will never have.
JPKab 5y ago
Unfortunately, the entire thread is people who don't understand that Autopilot and Full Self Driving are not the same thing. Autopilot comes with the vehicle, and is simply a lane-assist system. It explicitly tells you it will not brake the vehicle when activated. This driver was using Autopilot. Full Self Driving is an expensive upgrade, and the driver wasn't using it. But not to worry, the conflation of the two is driving dozens of confident, self-assured statements in this thread that are embarrassingly off-the-mark.
- rvz 5y ago
  Have you both proven that the so called 'driver monitoring systems' used for Autopilot and FSD not only doesn't work, but it neither properly checks that the driver behind the wheel is paying attention with their eyes on the road? Perhaps that why these days both of these systems are open to abuse constantly by the driver without the car monitoring them and hence the cause of these crashes regardless if it is autopilot or FSD.

by jlv2 5y ago

vanusa 5y ago

As long at Tesla continues to willfully and fraudulently push a product called "Full Self Driving" -- onto a customer base they know to be largely naive and unsophisticated -- they share responsibility for whatever death and carnage inevitably results from this cynical and manipulative course of action.

JPKab 5y ago
I'm always fascinated by this urge to push individual lapses and judgment onto large and wealthy entities. I own a Tesla Model 3 and I have chosen not to purchase the full self-driving package nor do I intend to rent it. I don't think the technology is worth it at this point to me personally. When you own the vehicle, it is very clear that the autopilot mode is simply a lane assist system. They have messages flashing all over the screen stating that it will not stop at stop signs or red lights. It's not like it's hidden from anybody and instead is blatantly displayed with no way to stop it from displaying every time it is activated. This driver was abusing a system that is meant to reduce fatigue. He should bear the consequences. Those of us who enjoy the reduction fatigue when driving from Denver to Omaha like I've had to do recently, should not have the feature disabled because of his irresponsibility.
- vanusa 5y ago
  Do you think the product name "Full Self Driving" has anything to do with reality?
  - dml2135 5y ago
    Tesla bears some responsibility, but it's also on an individual to sniff out bullshit when necessary, and not be gullible to the point of committing negligent homicide. When you operate heavy machinery, it's your responsibility to read the owner's manual, and not just listen to the marketing.
  - idop 5y ago
    "Full Self Driving" means "Part Self Driving"? What a country!
  - JPKab 5y ago
    He wasn't using Full Self Driving, nor was he a customer. Autopilot != FSD. Autopilot comes with the vehicle. Full Self Driving is an add-on. He was on Autopilot. But let's not the facts or details stop us.
    - vanusa 5y ago
      You may answer the question, if you wish.
lupire 5y ago
The customer base are rich and can take care of themselves. Everyone else on the road is who need to be protected.
JPKab 5y ago
The product being used was not "Full Self Driving". He was using "Autopilot" which comes with the vehicle. FSD is a completely separate, and expensive, upgrade. Thoroughly enjoying the completely uninformed comments on this.
- TheCoelacanth 5y ago
  "Autopilot" is still highly misleading.
  - thehappypm 5y ago
    Maybe to you. “Autopilot” is a term I don’t think has an incredibly clear meaning. Planes are known to have autopilot, but I think of it like “we’ve reached cruising altitude, going to point this bird at LGA and let the autopilot keep us on the right route”. I don’t know what the analogy would be for cars. Maybe something like adaptive cruise control plus lane keeping and auto braking?
    - vanusa 5y ago
      Then call it "adaptive cruise control" and be done with it. There's only one reason they pick the term "autopilot" -- and that is to give people the impression that these cars have magical powers that they do not, in fact have. And until proven otherwise, most likely will never have.

JPKab 5y ago

Unfortunately, the entire thread is people who don't understand that Autopilot and Full Self Driving are not the same thing. Autopilot comes with the vehicle, and is simply a lane-assist system. It explicitly tells you it will not brake the vehicle when activated. This driver was using Autopilot. Full Self Driving is an expensive upgrade, and the driver wasn't using it. But not to worry, the conflation of the two is driving dozens of confident, self-assured statements in this thread that are embarrassingly off-the-mark.

rvz 5y ago
Have you both proven that the so called 'driver monitoring systems' used for Autopilot and FSD not only doesn't work, but it neither properly checks that the driver behind the wheel is paying attention with their eyes on the road? Perhaps that why these days both of these systems are open to abuse constantly by the driver without the car monitoring them and hence the cause of these crashes regardless if it is autopilot or FSD.