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I think UBI will be necessary at some point, but I'm not thrilled with the idea of millions of us spending all their waking hours on Netflix and DoorDash.
by itisit 5y ago
I think UBI will be necessary at some point, but I'm not thrilled with the idea of millions of us spending all their waking hours on Netflix and DoorDash.
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y agoClearly the solution is to force people into meaningless toil instead.
- nickpp 5y agoIt’s not meaningless is someone else is willing to pay you a wage to do it. It may be repetitive, boring and crappy, but it has a meaning for the employer.
- zippergz 5y agoHonest question: why? If the things that need to be done in society are getting done, why does it matter what other people spend their time on?
- nickpp 5y agoBecause a society in which everything that needs to be done is getting done - is stagnating. A progressive society always discovers (or invents!) new things needing to be done. And somebody needs to do those things.
- fuzzer37 5y ago> Because a society in which everything that needs to be done is getting done - is stagnating Is that really the worst thing in the world? In an age driven by hyper consumerism and buying new shiny iPhones and other gadgets, do we really need to do more? Can't we just be happy with our accomplishments as a human race and just enjoy? I for one would welcome a stagnant society.
- nickpp 5y agoMaybe us or other citizens of the West can be happy and enjoy our immensely affluent life styles but the great majority of the population of this planet is far from this level and quite eager to reach it. The planet cannot support that. Also, humanity's eggs are currently all on one basket - we're one major cataclismic event from complete obliteration. No, the challenges ahead require us to keep evolving, we cannot afford to stagnate.
- beambot 5y ago> And somebody needs to do those things. Or some machine...
- whynotminot 5y agoAre you thrilled with the idea of more creative output being a result of UBI? There's a lot of great stuff that could happen if people weren't chained to wage slavery and could lean on UBI to pursue passions. Sure there will be people that sit on their ass and do nothing, but there will also be people who use their new found freedom to create great things that wouldn't have happened otherwise. I'd also like to point out that even the most radical UBI proponents aren't pushing for a truly substantial benefit. Most of the proposals I've seen are payments that would be near poverty level if it was treated as a sole income for any length of time.
- nickpp 5y agoI am willing to bet that most people will choose to do nothing. It’s being human after all to simply conserve your energy. And most of the ones pursuing their passions will do redundant, useless crap like countless blogs and TikTok videos. We are the result of evolution and without evolutionary pressure we will fail.
- vagrantJin 5y ago> We are the result of evolution and without evolutionary pressure we will fail. Dubious assumption indeed.
- heavyset_go 5y agoWe have not escaped evolutionary pressures, and I'll argue that DNA-based life as we know it will never be able to escape them. Mutations will happen and selection will happen, even if those selection pressures fluctuate. As natural life, everything we do is inherently natural.
- kunai 5y agoIt always amuses me to see futurists with no experience in biology or life sciences and a master's in CS try to extrapolate the future of humanity and society. Some of the worst trends in modernity are based around unqualified individuals with platforms trying to impose their will of the future on the masses (think Elon and his ridiculous tunnels, billionaires building "smart cities" in the desert, etc)
- paxys 5y agoWhat exactly is good about meaningless, repetitive labor for 8 hours a day?
- nickpp 5y agoYou can do repetitive, meaningless work while on UBI as well. For example I plan to smoke weed and play video games.
- qualudeheart 5y agoWhy not something more spiritually fulfilling?
- nickpp 5y agoWhy DO? Weed and games are fun. Spiritually fulfilling work is fun until about 10%, then you have to document the code, write tests, do marketing, answer support and so on…
- paxys 5y agoThe difference is you are doing what you want, rather than needing to do it to survive.
- nickpp 5y agoYes, but then I do things that are not necessary for our society leading to its decay and eventual complete failure.
- ubercow13 5y agoWhat you were doing before is still happening, if it was automated. Any small benefit you produce for society when you’re taking a break from smoking weed is a net positive for society compared to if you still had to spend all your time robotically doing your meaningless old job.
- VictorPath 5y agoI'm not thrilled with dividends and profits expropriated from the surplus labor time of those of us who work and create wealth by the 1%r heirs spending millions on ski slopes in Aspen, Zermatt or beaches on the French Riviera.
- dragonwriter 5y ago> I think UBI will be necessary at some point, but I'm not thrilled with the idea of millions of us spending all their waking hours on Netflix and DoorDash. Why would eliminating the benefit cliff produced by means-tested welfare result in fewer people working for income above the basic support level? Reducing the disincentive for additional work on top of minimum support is a major motivation for moving to BI from means-tested welfare.
- bsder 5y agoThe Dole gave us Harry Potter, you know. It also gave us Oasis. I'm sure that Britons can give you lots more examples. Given that most creative output comes from a very small number of people, releasing even a tiny fraction of those people from the basic drudgery of life should result in a cultural explosion. I would even argue that it would significantly help our current political problems. A lot of political discourse is driven by people who have unstructured idle time--retired or unemployed. UBI would allow people who currently have to struggle to support themselves to engage with the political system.
- nickpp 5y agoPeople on welfare still have the motivation, the need to improve their lot. UBI, being so… universal, would rob us of that motivation. Besides, don’t artists need the struggle to create? Isn’t best art born of pain and suffering? Isn’t the artist soul a tortured one?
- namrog84 5y agoI believe the answer is no. I dont have sources but I've read studies of the creative output of people who only do work when feeling inspired creative motivated and whatnot vs those who do purely out of discipline and habit. And even same people in different moods. And there is no discernable difference in output. Its a feel good assumption but you don't need any of those things to create beautiful things
- bsder 5y agoIt's even worse. Studies went down this rabbit hole and found that those who simply produce also produce better than those who wait to be "inspired".
- libraryatnight 5y agoI know this is anecdotal, I know it doesn't matter. But I just have to say, I watch more TV and order more food when I'm working. When I take a long break, I tend to cook meals, bake bread, work in my yard, and work on side projects. When I'm working I'm too tired at the end of the day to cook, I order in, and I'm too tired to work in my yard, I watch Netflix.
- Red_Leaves_Flyy 5y agoJust because we all can think of millions of examples of humans acting terribly doesn’t mean we are vindicated in judging the character of hundreds of millions of people on the behaviors shown in videos of people on what is likely the worst day of their life.