6 ms·

‘Nocebo effect’: two-thirds of Covid jab reactions not caused by vaccine

10 points by zqna 5y ago

retrac 5y ago
It was obvious this would happen when I looked at the first rounds of trial data used to approve the vaccines. In the placebo group, we find that nausea, headache, non-specific myalgia, etc. are all common reported side-effects, in some cases nearly as common as the non-placebo group. And then we had the media prime us with stories of people taking a day to recover after the injection, etc. The power of suggestion is quite real. It can turn a minor discomfort into something not even noticed, or into something that makes a person quite miserable for a couple days.
- GuB-42 5y ago
  The placebo group received a real vaccine, just not the covid vaccine. In at least one trial, it was the meningitis vaccine. They did it explicitly to mimic the typical side effect of a vaccine.
  - GameOfFrowns 5y ago
    According to the CDC the side effects of receiving the meningitis vaccine[0] include: - redness where the shot was given - soreness where the shot was given - muscle pain - headache - feeling tired [0]https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd/mening/public/adolescent-vaccine.html https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd/mening/public/adolescent-va...
  - datessssss 5y ago
    For what its worth, this analysis only looked at studies where the placebo was a saline solution.
- armchairhacker 5y ago
  I think most people take at least a day to recover from the jab. I sort of felt sick after my second and third shots and i’m 100% for vaccination. Honestly i believe that the vaccine may cause severe or long-term side-effects in extremely rare cases. The point is that these side-effects are much more common when catching covid unvaccinated (probably even in healthy young adults despite prior claims). If you do get a reaction, well you probably would’ve gotten at least as severe reaction from covid anyways.
  - GameOfFrowns 5y ago
    >If you do get a reaction, well you probably would’ve gotten at least as severe reaction from covid anyways. What's the logic behind this? Following a natural infection there would be a slow ramp-up in the presence of the virus and its spike protein in contrast to receiving the (mRNA) vaccine where a large amount of spike protein is expressed in a very short time frame. The latter is more of a shock to one's immune system.
hitpointdrew 5y ago
The same can be said for the effectiveness of the vaccine. I don't see any evidence that the "effectiveness" of the vaccines is anything beyond the placebo effect.
- throwaway858 5y ago
  This comment should be downvoted because it is spreading misinformation without providing any valuable opinion. It is a fact that the the original vaccine effectiveness trials were compared to a placebo group and the vaccine showed effectiveness beyond what was experienced by the placebo group. This information is readily available
  - hitpointdrew 5y ago
    >This information is readily available Information created by the same company the selling the vax.
    - cpncrunch 5y ago
      Also results from studies from various health authorities around the world since then.
  - Proven 5y ago
- sschueller 5y ago
  If you look at any countries data you can clearly see the effectiveness of preventing hospitals admissions with the vaccination. There is a very clear devide between the vaccinated and the unvaccinated. Here is the report from the Kanton of Zürich [1] from a day ago. Unlike the US, in Switzerland Pharma is not permitted to advertise prescription medications on TV and you will not have a phyzer rep on some TV show peddling the vax. Big Pharma has no say in this pandemic here, the experts are the ones giving advice to the government that then decides on what to do. [1] https://www.zh.ch/content/dam/zhweb/bilder-dokumente/themen/gesundheit/corona/hauptseite/gd_zh_corona_lagebulletin.pdf https://www.zh.ch/content/dam/zhweb/bilder-dokumente/themen/... pages 27 and 28

10 points by zqna 5y ago

It was obvious this would happen when I looked at the first rounds of trial data used to approve the vaccines. In the placebo group, we find that nausea, headache, non-specific myalgia, etc. are all common reported side-effects, in some cases nearly as common as the non-placebo group. And then we had the media prime us with stories of people taking a day to recover after the injection, etc. The power of suggestion is quite real. It can turn a minor discomfort into something not even noticed, or into something that makes a person quite miserable for a couple days.

GuB-42 5y ago
The placebo group received a real vaccine, just not the covid vaccine. In at least one trial, it was the meningitis vaccine. They did it explicitly to mimic the typical side effect of a vaccine.
- GameOfFrowns 5y ago
  According to the CDC the side effects of receiving the meningitis vaccine[0] include: - redness where the shot was given - soreness where the shot was given - muscle pain - headache - feeling tired [0]https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd/mening/public/adolescent-vaccine.html https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd/mening/public/adolescent-va...
- datessssss 5y ago
  For what its worth, this analysis only looked at studies where the placebo was a saline solution.
armchairhacker 5y ago
I think most people take at least a day to recover from the jab. I sort of felt sick after my second and third shots and i’m 100% for vaccination. Honestly i believe that the vaccine may cause severe or long-term side-effects in extremely rare cases. The point is that these side-effects are much more common when catching covid unvaccinated (probably even in healthy young adults despite prior claims). If you do get a reaction, well you probably would’ve gotten at least as severe reaction from covid anyways.
- GameOfFrowns 5y ago
  >If you do get a reaction, well you probably would’ve gotten at least as severe reaction from covid anyways. What's the logic behind this? Following a natural infection there would be a slow ramp-up in the presence of the virus and its spike protein in contrast to receiving the (mRNA) vaccine where a large amount of spike protein is expressed in a very short time frame. The latter is more of a shock to one's immune system.

hitpointdrew 5y ago

The same can be said for the effectiveness of the vaccine. I don't see any evidence that the "effectiveness" of the vaccines is anything beyond the placebo effect.

throwaway858 5y ago
This comment should be downvoted because it is spreading misinformation without providing any valuable opinion. It is a fact that the the original vaccine effectiveness trials were compared to a placebo group and the vaccine showed effectiveness beyond what was experienced by the placebo group. This information is readily available
- hitpointdrew 5y ago
  >This information is readily available Information created by the same company the selling the vax.
  - cpncrunch 5y ago
    Also results from studies from various health authorities around the world since then.
- Proven 5y ago
sschueller 5y ago
If you look at any countries data you can clearly see the effectiveness of preventing hospitals admissions with the vaccination. There is a very clear devide between the vaccinated and the unvaccinated. Here is the report from the Kanton of Zürich [1] from a day ago. Unlike the US, in Switzerland Pharma is not permitted to advertise prescription medications on TV and you will not have a phyzer rep on some TV show peddling the vax. Big Pharma has no say in this pandemic here, the experts are the ones giving advice to the government that then decides on what to do. [1] https://www.zh.ch/content/dam/zhweb/bilder-dokumente/themen/gesundheit/corona/hauptseite/gd_zh_corona_lagebulletin.pdf https://www.zh.ch/content/dam/zhweb/bilder-dokumente/themen/... pages 27 and 28