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> everyone getting something of tangible value Paying $40k in taxes in exchange for a UBI of $35k is not "getting something of tangible value"—it's losing $5k.

> everyone getting something of tangible value Paying $40k in taxes in exchange for a UBI of $35k is not "getting something of tangible value"—it's losing $5k. Those with low income (and thus low taxes) get something from UBI. Those with higher income do not. At the margin one might consider the difference to be something like a premium for unemployment insurance, but that only goes so far. > Like I also make good money but that makes me care less rather than more about my tax burden. If you really don't care about how much money you take home, why don't you switch to a lower-paying (but less stressful/demanding) job? Those taxes you claim you don't really care about represent unnecessary work put in relative to what you have to show for it at the end of the day.

Spivak 5y ago
Right, I’m not disagreeing with you, that’s what I meant by “equalizes at median income.” I just mean that economics are felt directly unlike “I pay payroll taxes for… stuff… probably?” > If you really don't care about how much money you take home, why don't you switch to a lower-paying (but less stressful/demanding) job? Because I have a high-paying not very demanding low stress job. So on the theory that I could be making more in exchange for more stress I guess I already took your advice. > Those taxes you claim you don't really care about represent unnecessary work But that’s true of all taxes. I still make more money when I make more money. At that point we’re just arguing over the number. And I would kinda rather everyone have UBI and healthcare when it what it costs me is “a non-quality of life affecting amount” which is why progressive taxes work.
- nybble41 5y ago
  > Because I have a high-paying not very demanding low stress job. In that case I suppose congratulations are in order for winning the lottery. > I still make more money when I make more money. At that point we’re just arguing over the number. The number is important because at some point it's no longer worth the extra effort. People can almost always get more money by working more or putting in more effort, and yet it's rare for anyone to dedicate their entire life exclusively to their work. Reducing the reward from work shifts that balance point, even if you're not technically "working for free". > And I would kinda rather everyone have UBI and healthcare when it what it costs me is “a non-quality of life affecting amount” which is why progressive taxes work. Since we're talking about taxes here it's less about what you're willing to pay and more about what you're willing to make everyone else pay. If it were just about the cost to you there would be no need to make it compulsory—the government will be happy to accept your donation.

Spivak 5y ago

Right, I’m not disagreeing with you, that’s what I meant by “equalizes at median income.” I just mean that economics are felt directly unlike “I pay payroll taxes for… stuff… probably?” > If you really don't care about how much money you take home, why don't you switch to a lower-paying (but less stressful/demanding) job? Because I have a high-paying not very demanding low stress job. So on the theory that I could be making more in exchange for more stress I guess I already took your advice. > Those taxes you claim you don't really care about represent unnecessary work But that’s true of all taxes. I still make more money when I make more money. At that point we’re just arguing over the number. And I would kinda rather everyone have UBI and healthcare when it what it costs me is “a non-quality of life affecting amount” which is why progressive taxes work.

nybble41 5y ago
> Because I have a high-paying not very demanding low stress job. In that case I suppose congratulations are in order for winning the lottery. > I still make more money when I make more money. At that point we’re just arguing over the number. The number is important because at some point it's no longer worth the extra effort. People can almost always get more money by working more or putting in more effort, and yet it's rare for anyone to dedicate their entire life exclusively to their work. Reducing the reward from work shifts that balance point, even if you're not technically "working for free". > And I would kinda rather everyone have UBI and healthcare when it what it costs me is “a non-quality of life affecting amount” which is why progressive taxes work. Since we're talking about taxes here it's less about what you're willing to pay and more about what you're willing to make everyone else pay. If it were just about the cost to you there would be no need to make it compulsory—the government will be happy to accept your donation.