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> The vaccines, imperfect as they are, seem to have dramatically reduced the incidence of severe symptoms requiring hospitalizations and of death due to Covid.

> The vaccines, imperfect as they are, seem to have dramatically reduced the incidence of severe symptoms requiring hospitalizations and of death due to Covid. Is that why there's now more vaccinated people hospitalized for COVID than unvaccinated? I seriously can't understand how people participate in these mental gymnastics. There's more COVID "cases" now than ever before. How does that lend credit to vaccination?

pacerwpg 5y ago
The only places where vaccinated hospitalizations outpace unvaccinated are in places with very high vaccine uptake. If you compare on a per capita basis, hospitalizations in the unvaccinated are higher. There's also a highly transmissible variant, which shows some level of resistance to vaccination. These aren't difficult concepts to understand.
moistly 5y ago
Tell me you are math illiterate without etc.
- bigyellow 5y ago
  Tell me you can't google "more vaccinated in hospitals" https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/19843315.covid-scotland-case-rates-lowest-unvaccinated-double-jabbed-elderly-drive-rise-hospital-admissions/ https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/19843315.covid-scotland-... > Case rates lowest in unvaccinated as double-jabbed elderly drive rise in hospital admissions Must be fake news though, right?
  - tzs 5y ago
    According to that article this is being driven almost entirely by hospitalizations in the 70+ population. That group is nearly 100% double vaccinated in Scotland. What you are seeing here is classic Simpson's Paradox. It is exactly the same thing we saw earlier with Israel with delta. Here was an article on that which covers how Simpson's Paradox works in that situation [1]. [1] https://www.covid-datascience.com/post/israeli-data-how-can-efficacy-vs-severe-disease-be-strong-when-60-of-hospitalized-are-vaccinated https://www.covid-datascience.com/post/israeli-data-how-can-...
    - bigyellow 5y ago
      > hospitalizations in the 70+ population. That group is nearly 100% double vaccinated in Scotland. Double vaccinated and hospitalized. Must mean the vaccine is working, right?
      - tzs 5y ago
        No. It just means the vaccine does not reduce your chances of hospitalization by 100%. It is "only" reducing them by 90+%. When you are dealing with a population that is nearly 100% vaccinated, even though unvaccinated people are hospitalized at 10x the rate of vaccinated people you will still have almost all hospitalizations be vaccinated.
        bigyellow 5y ago
        > It just means the vaccine does not reduce your chances of hospitalization by 100%. It is "only" reducing them by 90+%. Oh we're just guessing numbers now? How quickly the discussion devolves into something other than science.
        moistly 5y ago
        Still math illiterate, I see.
tzs 5y ago
Unvaccinated people are hospitalized for COVID at a much higher rate than vaccinated people. Here's recent data for Washington that clearly shows this [1]. Washington's numbers are similar to those of most of the rest of the US. [1] https://www.doh.wa.gov/Portals/1/Documents/1600/coronavirus/data-tables/421-010-CasesInNotFullyVaccinated.pdf https://www.doh.wa.gov/Portals/1/Documents/1600/coronavirus/...
- bigyellow 5y ago
  This is hospitalizations WITH covid, not FROM covid - a totally useless metric.
  - tzs 5y ago
    Is your theory is that the reason unvaccinated people are hospitalized with COVID at 11 times the rate of vaccinated people is because unvaccinated people get in accidents, or have heart attacks and strokes, or have cancer, etc., at a much higher rate than vaccinated people? They aren't going in because they have COVID...they are going in for those other reasons and then happen to be found to have COVID?
    - bigyellow 5y ago
      We're talking about Washington, a one-party state with extreme left politics. This is how it actually works: Vaccinated person goes to the hospital for a cough and fever - "oh no dear, it can't be COVID because you're vaccinated, it must be the common flu" - not counted. Unvaccinated person comes in for a wrist sprain, tests positive on the PCR - "OMG UNVAXXED HOSPITALIZATION" - probably counted twice, too.
      - zeven7 5y ago
        Does NYC count as left? I went in after having diarrhea/vomit for 2 days, and all they did was give me a Covid test and send me away. I'm vaccinated. This was months ago, before omicron and the uptick in breakthrough cases. As a vaccinated person I've been tested multiple times when I didn't even have Covid symptoms. What I've witnessed is the opposite of trying to skip testing vaccinated people to shift numbers. You're just making things up.

pacerwpg 5y ago

The only places where vaccinated hospitalizations outpace unvaccinated are in places with very high vaccine uptake. If you compare on a per capita basis, hospitalizations in the unvaccinated are higher. There's also a highly transmissible variant, which shows some level of resistance to vaccination. These aren't difficult concepts to understand.

moistly 5y ago

Tell me you are math illiterate without etc.

bigyellow 5y ago
Tell me you can't google "more vaccinated in hospitals" https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/19843315.covid-scotland-case-rates-lowest-unvaccinated-double-jabbed-elderly-drive-rise-hospital-admissions/ https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/19843315.covid-scotland-... > Case rates lowest in unvaccinated as double-jabbed elderly drive rise in hospital admissions Must be fake news though, right?
- tzs 5y ago
  According to that article this is being driven almost entirely by hospitalizations in the 70+ population. That group is nearly 100% double vaccinated in Scotland. What you are seeing here is classic Simpson's Paradox. It is exactly the same thing we saw earlier with Israel with delta. Here was an article on that which covers how Simpson's Paradox works in that situation [1]. [1] https://www.covid-datascience.com/post/israeli-data-how-can-efficacy-vs-severe-disease-be-strong-when-60-of-hospitalized-are-vaccinated https://www.covid-datascience.com/post/israeli-data-how-can-...
  - bigyellow 5y ago
    > hospitalizations in the 70+ population. That group is nearly 100% double vaccinated in Scotland. Double vaccinated and hospitalized. Must mean the vaccine is working, right?
    - tzs 5y ago
      No. It just means the vaccine does not reduce your chances of hospitalization by 100%. It is "only" reducing them by 90+%. When you are dealing with a population that is nearly 100% vaccinated, even though unvaccinated people are hospitalized at 10x the rate of vaccinated people you will still have almost all hospitalizations be vaccinated.
      - bigyellow 5y ago
        > It just means the vaccine does not reduce your chances of hospitalization by 100%. It is "only" reducing them by 90+%. Oh we're just guessing numbers now? How quickly the discussion devolves into something other than science.
        moistly 5y ago
        Still math illiterate, I see.

tzs 5y ago

Unvaccinated people are hospitalized for COVID at a much higher rate than vaccinated people. Here's recent data for Washington that clearly shows this [1]. Washington's numbers are similar to those of most of the rest of the US. [1] https://www.doh.wa.gov/Portals/1/Documents/1600/coronavirus/data-tables/421-010-CasesInNotFullyVaccinated.pdf https://www.doh.wa.gov/Portals/1/Documents/1600/coronavirus/...

bigyellow 5y ago
This is hospitalizations WITH covid, not FROM covid - a totally useless metric.
- tzs 5y ago
  Is your theory is that the reason unvaccinated people are hospitalized with COVID at 11 times the rate of vaccinated people is because unvaccinated people get in accidents, or have heart attacks and strokes, or have cancer, etc., at a much higher rate than vaccinated people? They aren't going in because they have COVID...they are going in for those other reasons and then happen to be found to have COVID?
  - bigyellow 5y ago
    We're talking about Washington, a one-party state with extreme left politics. This is how it actually works: Vaccinated person goes to the hospital for a cough and fever - "oh no dear, it can't be COVID because you're vaccinated, it must be the common flu" - not counted. Unvaccinated person comes in for a wrist sprain, tests positive on the PCR - "OMG UNVAXXED HOSPITALIZATION" - probably counted twice, too.
    - zeven7 5y ago
      Does NYC count as left? I went in after having diarrhea/vomit for 2 days, and all they did was give me a Covid test and send me away. I'm vaccinated. This was months ago, before omicron and the uptick in breakthrough cases. As a vaccinated person I've been tested multiple times when I didn't even have Covid symptoms. What I've witnessed is the opposite of trying to skip testing vaccinated people to shift numbers. You're just making things up.