5 ms·

More than likely, because switching to Linux also drops all the "paid pre-installed windows software" (companies paying Dell to pre-install their software) then

by pwg 5y ago

More than likely, because switching to Linux also drops all the "paid pre-installed windows software" (companies paying Dell to pre-install their software) then this jump in price would give a hint as to how much Dell receives in payment for pre-installing all those windows extras.

acchow 5y ago
What is the software that gets installed and what does it do? Do they actually show ads?
- jamesy0ung 5y ago
  All of that junk like Norton/MCafee/Cyberlink/Shortcuts to websites. The Norton/MCafee crap gives you a 1 year 'complimentary' subscription. Many uneducated users will then go and resubscribe to that garbage AV.
- WhyCause 5y ago
  Not generally, no. Most of the time, it's software that goads you into a subscription after your 30-day trial, like anti-virus packages or HP's ink subscription.
  - yellowapple 5y ago
    Or, for that matter, Microsoft Office.
- dpark 5y ago
  I think it’s mostly junk like mcafee antivirus. Not strictly an ad but it’ll eventually nag you for money at some point.
- dmajor2 5y ago
  Norton 360, which if memory serves has been a stalwart of the preinstall game now installs an opt-in Cryptominer. https://krebsonsecurity.com/2022/01/norton-360-now-comes-with-a-cryptominer/comment-page-1/ https://krebsonsecurity.com/2022/01/norton-360-now-comes-wit...
  - pavlov 5y ago
    Further evidence that crypto is truly a cancer on software.
    - znpy 5y ago
      > Further evidence that crypto is truly a cancer on software. you might want to correct "crypto" with "cryptocurrency", at least
      - pavlov 5y ago
        Realistically that ship has sailed. It's like "GNU/Linux".
    - yjftsjthsd-h 5y ago
      > truly a cancer on software. Possibly crypto, definitely a lot of AV software.
    - panarky 5y ago
      Further evidence that free antivirus tools are malware.
    - mrb 5y ago
      If Norton 360 installed Folding@home, would you call F@H a "cancer"? No, you wouldn't. The true cancer here is pre-installed antivirus software such as Norton.
      - Hamuko 5y ago
        In this scenario, would Norton be taking a 15% cut?
        mrb 5y ago
        Yes, what if they did? In fact what if they resold 100% of the F@H compute power to buyers? That argument doesn't lead where you want it to go. It's the antivirus companies that are rubbish.
- MattGaiser 5y ago
  Everything from antivirus to cloud backups to photo editors. Basically just trial editions of various software.
- Hamuko 5y ago
  Lenovo actually used to ship adware/malware that actually broke TLS in order to inject ads onto webpages. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superfish#Lenovo_security_incident https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superfish#Lenovo_security_inci...
  - PostThisTooFast 5y ago
  - acchow 5y ago
    Ouch. For a "just works out of the box" experience, this is why I never went back to Windows after switching to Mac. I did actually wipe a Windows pre-install once to install Ubuntu, but that took forever to setup and fix drivers regularly.
- rhizome 5y ago
  A quick search for a default Dell/Windows desktop shows Spotify, Netflix, PicsArt, and there's a couplefew more in the tray, not to mention the start menu, which certainly has more who probably got a bit of a discount on their placement fees. https://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/DSC00361.jpeg https://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/DSC00... https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/22894952/twarren__windows11_sharper.jpg https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/22894952/t...
- avianlyric 5y ago
  The pre-installed software is the ad. The software manufacturer hopes that consumers will buy their subscription or full priced software. After all, people believe they need antivirus software to stay safe (the fact antivirus software can be worse than the virus doesn’t change people beliefs) so why not buy the one that’s already installed on their PC? Or another way of looking at it, Google pays Apple billions each year to make Google the default search engine on iOS, because Google recognises the power of defaults i.e. people are lazy and will use/buy whatever’s in front of them to avoid doing any work looking for alternatives.
  - danudey 5y ago
    I once set up a new Dell system, and it took something like 30 minutes to actually start and get to the desktop, and then a huge amount of time afterwards answering "yes I for really really real don't want your stupid demo" to a dozen pop-ups, and then another hour of uninstalling all the crap it had. I cannot imagine anyone non-technical having to go through that and deal with BS like daily pop-ups "reminding" you to renew your subscription because "your PC is not protected" and so on. It's honestly asinine, but hey, just buy a Mac or a Linux Dell I guess.
    - Sohcahtoa82 5y ago
      When I bought a laptop in 2012, the first thing I did was wipe the drive and install Windows from scratch. If I were to do that today, I'd do the same thing.
mdeslaur 5y ago
Yes, this.
PragmaticPulp 5y ago
I knew a "business development" guy who specialized in these deals. Unless something has changed drastically in this space, Dell isn't going anywhere near $200 plus the cost of a Windows license on every machine they sell. I'm guessing they have higher return rates and higher support calls from people selecting the Linux option who don't fully understand what they're doing. If the Linux option reduced the price, there would be scores of people clicking it just to save a few bucks without understanding the consequences. You have to keep in mind that technically competent people ordering laptops are actually a minority.
- packetlost 5y ago
  I imagine companies with business accounts also receive discounts on the "developer" machines in question anyways, so it's really just an incentive to prevent the extra support overhead.
- LarryMade2 5y ago
  Another point is the packaging and documentation, got a Linux Server in the mid 2000s came with Red Hat with a lot of nice install disks, support line, etc. Not just the distro dicks in RH's packaging, so that does add to the cost. I'm sure they might have done a bunch of testing and tweaking to ensure compatibility upon first boot as well. Though from my standpoint I'd rather know of a distro's quirks with a particular computer than be surprised when I decide to use something different down the line.
deeg 5y ago
Does Dell offer a "clean" version of Windows for the extra price? I can come up with competing reasons for why they would/wouldn't do this.
- danudey 5y ago
  This might be an option for business or enterprise versions; I know our company buys everything from Dell so we have a good relationship, and I've seen discussions of being able to send a system image to Dell for them to put onto laptops that you order. If you're not spending a huge amount on laptops, though, I can't imagine this being an option they want to offer.
  - infinii 5y ago
    Larger enterprises have their own images and would never put a preinstall on a users' desktop.
- downrightmike 5y ago
  Maybe if you order the factory restore disks after the fact.
m463 5y ago
A friend of mine worked with systems like this - and this was decades ago - said the pre-installed deals were very lucrative. decades ago it was > $50/machine Nowadays there's also the automated data-collection, remote telemetry and troubleshooting, "know your customer", etc. That said, the remote lenovo stuff is a whole different level

by pwg 5y ago

acchow 5y ago

What is the software that gets installed and what does it do? Do they actually show ads?

jamesy0ung 5y ago
All of that junk like Norton/MCafee/Cyberlink/Shortcuts to websites. The Norton/MCafee crap gives you a 1 year 'complimentary' subscription. Many uneducated users will then go and resubscribe to that garbage AV.
WhyCause 5y ago
Not generally, no. Most of the time, it's software that goads you into a subscription after your 30-day trial, like anti-virus packages or HP's ink subscription.
- yellowapple 5y ago
  Or, for that matter, Microsoft Office.
dpark 5y ago
I think it’s mostly junk like mcafee antivirus. Not strictly an ad but it’ll eventually nag you for money at some point.
dmajor2 5y ago
Norton 360, which if memory serves has been a stalwart of the preinstall game now installs an opt-in Cryptominer. https://krebsonsecurity.com/2022/01/norton-360-now-comes-with-a-cryptominer/comment-page-1/ https://krebsonsecurity.com/2022/01/norton-360-now-comes-wit...
- pavlov 5y ago
  Further evidence that crypto is truly a cancer on software.
  - znpy 5y ago
    > Further evidence that crypto is truly a cancer on software. you might want to correct "crypto" with "cryptocurrency", at least
    - pavlov 5y ago
      Realistically that ship has sailed. It's like "GNU/Linux".
  - yjftsjthsd-h 5y ago
    > truly a cancer on software. Possibly crypto, definitely a lot of AV software.
  - panarky 5y ago
    Further evidence that free antivirus tools are malware.
  - mrb 5y ago
    If Norton 360 installed Folding@home, would you call F@H a "cancer"? No, you wouldn't. The true cancer here is pre-installed antivirus software such as Norton.
    - Hamuko 5y ago
      In this scenario, would Norton be taking a 15% cut?
      - mrb 5y ago
        Yes, what if they did? In fact what if they resold 100% of the F@H compute power to buyers? That argument doesn't lead where you want it to go. It's the antivirus companies that are rubbish.
MattGaiser 5y ago
Everything from antivirus to cloud backups to photo editors. Basically just trial editions of various software.
Hamuko 5y ago
Lenovo actually used to ship adware/malware that actually broke TLS in order to inject ads onto webpages. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superfish#Lenovo_security_incident https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superfish#Lenovo_security_inci...
- PostThisTooFast 5y ago
- acchow 5y ago
  Ouch. For a "just works out of the box" experience, this is why I never went back to Windows after switching to Mac. I did actually wipe a Windows pre-install once to install Ubuntu, but that took forever to setup and fix drivers regularly.
rhizome 5y ago
A quick search for a default Dell/Windows desktop shows Spotify, Netflix, PicsArt, and there's a couplefew more in the tray, not to mention the start menu, which certainly has more who probably got a bit of a discount on their placement fees. https://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/DSC00361.jpeg https://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/DSC00... https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/22894952/twarren__windows11_sharper.jpg https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/22894952/t...
avianlyric 5y ago
The pre-installed software is the ad. The software manufacturer hopes that consumers will buy their subscription or full priced software. After all, people believe they need antivirus software to stay safe (the fact antivirus software can be worse than the virus doesn’t change people beliefs) so why not buy the one that’s already installed on their PC? Or another way of looking at it, Google pays Apple billions each year to make Google the default search engine on iOS, because Google recognises the power of defaults i.e. people are lazy and will use/buy whatever’s in front of them to avoid doing any work looking for alternatives.
- danudey 5y ago
  I once set up a new Dell system, and it took something like 30 minutes to actually start and get to the desktop, and then a huge amount of time afterwards answering "yes I for really really real don't want your stupid demo" to a dozen pop-ups, and then another hour of uninstalling all the crap it had. I cannot imagine anyone non-technical having to go through that and deal with BS like daily pop-ups "reminding" you to renew your subscription because "your PC is not protected" and so on. It's honestly asinine, but hey, just buy a Mac or a Linux Dell I guess.
  - Sohcahtoa82 5y ago
    When I bought a laptop in 2012, the first thing I did was wipe the drive and install Windows from scratch. If I were to do that today, I'd do the same thing.

mdeslaur 5y ago

Yes, this.

PragmaticPulp 5y ago

I knew a "business development" guy who specialized in these deals. Unless something has changed drastically in this space, Dell isn't going anywhere near $200 plus the cost of a Windows license on every machine they sell. I'm guessing they have higher return rates and higher support calls from people selecting the Linux option who don't fully understand what they're doing. If the Linux option reduced the price, there would be scores of people clicking it just to save a few bucks without understanding the consequences. You have to keep in mind that technically competent people ordering laptops are actually a minority.

packetlost 5y ago
I imagine companies with business accounts also receive discounts on the "developer" machines in question anyways, so it's really just an incentive to prevent the extra support overhead.
LarryMade2 5y ago
Another point is the packaging and documentation, got a Linux Server in the mid 2000s came with Red Hat with a lot of nice install disks, support line, etc. Not just the distro dicks in RH's packaging, so that does add to the cost. I'm sure they might have done a bunch of testing and tweaking to ensure compatibility upon first boot as well. Though from my standpoint I'd rather know of a distro's quirks with a particular computer than be surprised when I decide to use something different down the line.

deeg 5y ago

Does Dell offer a "clean" version of Windows for the extra price? I can come up with competing reasons for why they would/wouldn't do this.

danudey 5y ago
This might be an option for business or enterprise versions; I know our company buys everything from Dell so we have a good relationship, and I've seen discussions of being able to send a system image to Dell for them to put onto laptops that you order. If you're not spending a huge amount on laptops, though, I can't imagine this being an option they want to offer.
- infinii 5y ago
  Larger enterprises have their own images and would never put a preinstall on a users' desktop.
downrightmike 5y ago
Maybe if you order the factory restore disks after the fact.

m463 5y ago

A friend of mine worked with systems like this - and this was decades ago - said the pre-installed deals were very lucrative. decades ago it was > $50/machine Nowadays there's also the automated data-collection, remote telemetry and troubleshooting, "know your customer", etc. That said, the remote lenovo stuff is a whole different level