5 ms·

In my state, we have a reduced "hospital capacity" because 3,000 nurses and other HCW were fired for not getting sufficiently "vaccinated". Now our governor (In

In my state, we have a reduced "hospital capacity" because 3,000 nurses and other HCW were fired for not getting sufficiently "vaccinated". Now our governor (Inslee) is calling retired HCWs back into the workforce. Complete madness - not rooted in science, but in political science. Our country is due for a talk about natural immunity, especially when most of the people I know who've had 3 "vaccine" shots and still got covid. Are they now immune?

jrockway 5y ago
On a statistical level, the vaccines don't have to be 100% effective, and they aren't. For every person you hear about being sick after 3 doses, there are probably 10 people that would have gotten it, but didn't. If there was 10x less healthcare capacity, you can see why that would be a larger problem. That said, the vaccines do seem pretty focused on the 2019 variant of COVID-19. It's 2022 now, and that variant is dead. So we're definitely getting imperfect protection. (I got my 3rd dose anyway, of course. And I'm still treating the pandemic like a pandemic. I skipped holiday travel, I don't go out unless absolutely necessary, etc.)
- bigyellow 5y ago
  I like how vaccines can "probably" reduce chances of being sick, but saying vaccines "probably" have unknown long-term effects is heresy.
  - pacerwpg 5y ago
    We have evidence of one and not the other. It's really simple.
    - bigyellow 5y ago
      Exactly. We have no evidence of long-term effects, and are trusting the same people who told us a year ago that vaccines provide protection to tell us they're safe. It's asinine.
kashunstva 5y ago
I'm curious what the scare quotes around the words _vaccinated_, _vaccine_ and _hospital capacity_ are meant to convey. The vaccines, imperfect as they are, seem to have dramatically reduced the incidence of severe symptoms requiring hospitalizations and of death due to Covid. My wife is a vascular surgeon & one of her colleagues handles the placement of ECMO (extracorporeal membrane oxygenation) for patients with severe respiratory failure. Since the vaccines have become available, the only patients going on ECMO are unvaccinated. I'd call the Covid-19 vaccines pretty remarkable and only condemnable if your criteria for success is 100% effective in preventing all cases of Covid-19 with no risk of adverse effects.
- bigyellow 5y ago
  > The vaccines, imperfect as they are, seem to have dramatically reduced the incidence of severe symptoms requiring hospitalizations and of death due to Covid. Is that why there's now more vaccinated people hospitalized for COVID than unvaccinated? I seriously can't understand how people participate in these mental gymnastics. There's more COVID "cases" now than ever before. How does that lend credit to vaccination?
  - pacerwpg 5y ago
    The only places where vaccinated hospitalizations outpace unvaccinated are in places with very high vaccine uptake. If you compare on a per capita basis, hospitalizations in the unvaccinated are higher. There's also a highly transmissible variant, which shows some level of resistance to vaccination. These aren't difficult concepts to understand.
  - moistly 5y ago
    Tell me you are math illiterate without etc.
    - bigyellow 5y ago
      Tell me you can't google "more vaccinated in hospitals" https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/19843315.covid-scotland-case-rates-lowest-unvaccinated-double-jabbed-elderly-drive-rise-hospital-admissions/ https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/19843315.covid-scotland-... > Case rates lowest in unvaccinated as double-jabbed elderly drive rise in hospital admissions Must be fake news though, right?

jrockway 5y ago

On a statistical level, the vaccines don't have to be 100% effective, and they aren't. For every person you hear about being sick after 3 doses, there are probably 10 people that would have gotten it, but didn't. If there was 10x less healthcare capacity, you can see why that would be a larger problem. That said, the vaccines do seem pretty focused on the 2019 variant of COVID-19. It's 2022 now, and that variant is dead. So we're definitely getting imperfect protection. (I got my 3rd dose anyway, of course. And I'm still treating the pandemic like a pandemic. I skipped holiday travel, I don't go out unless absolutely necessary, etc.)

bigyellow 5y ago
I like how vaccines can "probably" reduce chances of being sick, but saying vaccines "probably" have unknown long-term effects is heresy.
- pacerwpg 5y ago
  We have evidence of one and not the other. It's really simple.
  - bigyellow 5y ago
    Exactly. We have no evidence of long-term effects, and are trusting the same people who told us a year ago that vaccines provide protection to tell us they're safe. It's asinine.

kashunstva 5y ago

I'm curious what the scare quotes around the words _vaccinated_, _vaccine_ and _hospital capacity_ are meant to convey. The vaccines, imperfect as they are, seem to have dramatically reduced the incidence of severe symptoms requiring hospitalizations and of death due to Covid. My wife is a vascular surgeon & one of her colleagues handles the placement of ECMO (extracorporeal membrane oxygenation) for patients with severe respiratory failure. Since the vaccines have become available, the only patients going on ECMO are unvaccinated. I'd call the Covid-19 vaccines pretty remarkable and only condemnable if your criteria for success is 100% effective in preventing all cases of Covid-19 with no risk of adverse effects.

bigyellow 5y ago
> The vaccines, imperfect as they are, seem to have dramatically reduced the incidence of severe symptoms requiring hospitalizations and of death due to Covid. Is that why there's now more vaccinated people hospitalized for COVID than unvaccinated? I seriously can't understand how people participate in these mental gymnastics. There's more COVID "cases" now than ever before. How does that lend credit to vaccination?
- pacerwpg 5y ago
  The only places where vaccinated hospitalizations outpace unvaccinated are in places with very high vaccine uptake. If you compare on a per capita basis, hospitalizations in the unvaccinated are higher. There's also a highly transmissible variant, which shows some level of resistance to vaccination. These aren't difficult concepts to understand.
- moistly 5y ago
  Tell me you are math illiterate without etc.
  - bigyellow 5y ago
    Tell me you can't google "more vaccinated in hospitals" https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/19843315.covid-scotland-case-rates-lowest-unvaccinated-double-jabbed-elderly-drive-rise-hospital-admissions/ https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/19843315.covid-scotland-... > Case rates lowest in unvaccinated as double-jabbed elderly drive rise in hospital admissions Must be fake news though, right?