4 ms·

Thinking about it, isn’t window an odd word choice for what we call movable, stackable, resizeable content regions in a user interface? Other than being rectang

Thinking about it, isn’t window an odd word choice for what we call movable, stackable, resizeable content regions in a user interface? Other than being rectangular they’re not like real-world windows at all. I can remember my high school computer studies teacher explaining they're called windows because they're split into panes. Microsoft Windows versions 1 and 2 didn't actually have stackable overlapping windows (you'd split the screen up into as many panes as you needed) so I suspect the name made sense then and has since stuck.

glhaynes 15y ago
Good point - though I believe they were called windows on previous GUI systems. EDIT: Though now that I think about it and, IIRC, Xerox's stuff didn't have overlapping windows either. Apple's Lisa and Mac did. I think Englebart's demo had windows but I'm not sure if they overlapped.
- angusgr 15y ago
  FWIW the Xerox Alto (1979) called them windows, even though you're right that they didn't overlap like the Mac/Lisa ones did. http://history-computer.com/Library/AltoUsersHandbook.pdf http://history-computer.com/Library/AltoUsersHandbook.pdf EDIT: The Alto could run SmallTalk as one of its environments, though, and its windows overlapped as of SmallTalk-72 or -76 http://www.esug.org/data/HistoricalDocuments/SmalltalkHistory.pdf http://www.esug.org/data/HistoricalDocuments/SmalltalkHistor...
- zizee 15y ago
  I recall a story (maybe an urban myth) about Steve Jobs visiting Xerox's labs and seeing their UI in action and thinking "we've got to have that". He went back to tell Woz all about it, telling him that Xerox's UI supported overlapping windows and that Apple needed to do the same. Woz was amazed that it was possible to have overlapping windows on such a resource constrained machine. But if Xerox engineers could do it, he could to dammit! After a Herculean effort he got the overlapping windows to work nicely and they shipped. It was only later that they found out that Xerox's engineers were blown away by Woz's achievement as they had studied the problem and decided that it wouldn't be possible to do overlapping windows. They never developed that functionality. Turns out that Jobs had made a mistake in remembering what he had seen and Xerox never did have those overlapping windows :-) Anyway, this story might be incorrect on some points or a complete fabrication, but I like it.
  - krevis 15y ago
    Not Woz, Bill Atkinson. http://folklore.org/StoryView.py?project=Macintosh&story=On_Xerox,_Apple_and_Progress.txt http://folklore.org/StoryView.py?project=Macintosh&story... "Smalltalk didn't even have self-repairing windows - you had to click in them to get them to repaint, and programs couldn't draw into partially obscured windows. Bill Atkinson did not know this, so he invented regions as the basis of QuickDraw and the Window Manager so that he could quickly draw in covered windows and repaint portions of windows brought to the front."
    - deleted 15y ago
      [deleted]
    - zizee 15y ago
      Ah, excellent stuff. Thanks for the correction and digging that up.
    - _sh 15y ago
      The 'regions' used in QuickDraw are an amazing (for their time) data structure, a testament to the genius of Bill Atkinson. I strongly recommend reading the patent to see how cool and useful they were to the original Mac windowing system (http://patentdetails.patenttools.com/patent/04622545?searchid=18718 http://patentdetails.patenttools.com/patent/04622545?searchi... click on the 'download pdf' link in the top left). Steve Jobs know how important regions were: http://www.folklore.org/StoryView.py?project=Macintosh&story=I_Still_Remember_Regions.txt&topic=QuickDraw http://www.folklore.org/StoryView.py?project=Macintosh&s...
      - _sh 15y ago
        Obviously I meant 'Steve Jobs knew how important regions were'. In a semi-related matter, does anyone know of the algorithm Bill used to draw RoundRects 'blisteringly fast'? http://www.folklore.org/StoryView.py?project=Macintosh&story=Round_Rects_Are_Everywhere.txt&topic=QuickDraw http://www.folklore.org/StoryView.py?project=Macintosh&s...
        15y ago
libraryatnight 15y ago
I've heard this explanation, too. Also, I don't find the 'metaphoric' window all that big a stretch.
jrockway 15y ago
This makes a lot of sense. Emacs calls the OS-level-thing-to-draw-on a "frame", and then you have non-overlapping "windows" inside the frame.
- eru 15y ago
  Yes, but that's because Emacs' windows were invented for the console. So they had to use a different word for what they call "frames" later on.
skeletonjelly 15y ago
So similar to tiling window managers you'd find on GNU/Linux I guess.

glhaynes 15y ago

Good point - though I believe they were called windows on previous GUI systems. EDIT: Though now that I think about it and, IIRC, Xerox's stuff didn't have overlapping windows either. Apple's Lisa and Mac did. I think Englebart's demo had windows but I'm not sure if they overlapped.

angusgr 15y ago
FWIW the Xerox Alto (1979) called them windows, even though you're right that they didn't overlap like the Mac/Lisa ones did. http://history-computer.com/Library/AltoUsersHandbook.pdf http://history-computer.com/Library/AltoUsersHandbook.pdf EDIT: The Alto could run SmallTalk as one of its environments, though, and its windows overlapped as of SmallTalk-72 or -76 http://www.esug.org/data/HistoricalDocuments/SmalltalkHistory.pdf http://www.esug.org/data/HistoricalDocuments/SmalltalkHistor...
zizee 15y ago
I recall a story (maybe an urban myth) about Steve Jobs visiting Xerox's labs and seeing their UI in action and thinking "we've got to have that". He went back to tell Woz all about it, telling him that Xerox's UI supported overlapping windows and that Apple needed to do the same. Woz was amazed that it was possible to have overlapping windows on such a resource constrained machine. But if Xerox engineers could do it, he could to dammit! After a Herculean effort he got the overlapping windows to work nicely and they shipped. It was only later that they found out that Xerox's engineers were blown away by Woz's achievement as they had studied the problem and decided that it wouldn't be possible to do overlapping windows. They never developed that functionality. Turns out that Jobs had made a mistake in remembering what he had seen and Xerox never did have those overlapping windows :-) Anyway, this story might be incorrect on some points or a complete fabrication, but I like it.
- krevis 15y ago
  Not Woz, Bill Atkinson. http://folklore.org/StoryView.py?project=Macintosh&story=On_Xerox,_Apple_and_Progress.txt http://folklore.org/StoryView.py?project=Macintosh&story... "Smalltalk didn't even have self-repairing windows - you had to click in them to get them to repaint, and programs couldn't draw into partially obscured windows. Bill Atkinson did not know this, so he invented regions as the basis of QuickDraw and the Window Manager so that he could quickly draw in covered windows and repaint portions of windows brought to the front."
  - deleted 15y ago
    [deleted]
  - zizee 15y ago
    Ah, excellent stuff. Thanks for the correction and digging that up.
  - _sh 15y ago
    The 'regions' used in QuickDraw are an amazing (for their time) data structure, a testament to the genius of Bill Atkinson. I strongly recommend reading the patent to see how cool and useful they were to the original Mac windowing system (http://patentdetails.patenttools.com/patent/04622545?searchid=18718 http://patentdetails.patenttools.com/patent/04622545?searchi... click on the 'download pdf' link in the top left). Steve Jobs know how important regions were: http://www.folklore.org/StoryView.py?project=Macintosh&story=I_Still_Remember_Regions.txt&topic=QuickDraw http://www.folklore.org/StoryView.py?project=Macintosh&s...
    - _sh 15y ago
      Obviously I meant 'Steve Jobs knew how important regions were'. In a semi-related matter, does anyone know of the algorithm Bill used to draw RoundRects 'blisteringly fast'? http://www.folklore.org/StoryView.py?project=Macintosh&story=Round_Rects_Are_Everywhere.txt&topic=QuickDraw http://www.folklore.org/StoryView.py?project=Macintosh&s...
      - 15y ago

libraryatnight 15y ago

I've heard this explanation, too. Also, I don't find the 'metaphoric' window all that big a stretch.

jrockway 15y ago

This makes a lot of sense. Emacs calls the OS-level-thing-to-draw-on a "frame", and then you have non-overlapping "windows" inside the frame.

eru 15y ago
Yes, but that's because Emacs' windows were invented for the console. So they had to use a different word for what they call "frames" later on.

skeletonjelly 15y ago

So similar to tiling window managers you'd find on GNU/Linux I guess.