5 ms·

With this strict standard, what do we do with 11+m illegal immigrants in the US? Getting paid in cash, are they indulging in tax evasion or in tax avoidance?

by cft 5y ago

rsstack 5y ago
First, many of them aren't cash only. Second, a single enforcement mechanism of the IRS isn't supposed to catch all infractions. The IRS, and other federal and state agencies, have other mechanisms than asking Venmo to report transactions.
Broken_Hippo 5y ago
That's obviously a different beast. To deal with a bunch of folks getting paid under the table, the obvious answer is to jail the person paying them in cash, and then investigate them to see if they are exploiting folks in other ways as well. Without exploitation of this sort, folks without paperwork find it harder to be employed. If you want to reduce illegal immigration, a good starting point is to look at laws and make sure they are not only fair, but easy for the would-be immigrant to follow. Most folks in the US 'illegally' started out being legal, after all, and you realistically want to close that gap. And so we are clear, asylum seekers aren't "illegal".
- ahefner 5y ago
  Paying people for work and enabling them to earn a living constitutes exploitation?
  - Broken_Hippo 5y ago
    This is a misrepresentation. Paying folks under the table is a sign of exploitation - and undocumented folks easily fall into exploitation. I would have thought a fair reading would have come to this conclusion. Of course it isn't always that way.
    - ahefner 5y ago
      It may be a misreading, but not an intentional misrepresentation. I suppose it depends on how you interpret the term "exploitation". Most frequently this is used implying some harm is being done to the exploited party. My comment is to argue this is not the case here, as they would be strictly worse off without this employment. The employer is certainly exploiting an opportunity to employ the undocumented worker, but (arguing about words here) that does not constitute them "being exploited". Arguably, both honest tax-paying employers and employees are "being exploited" by the government by way of it collecting income tax. Depending on your point of view, the greatest harm here is either self-inflicted by the worker, by coming to the country and putting them self in this situation, or by the government, by inventing rules dictating that a person is not legally allowed to work, punitively disincentiving their becoming "documented" with the threat of deportation versus the convoluted immigration process, etc. Giving it some thought, I can relate that there is some potential for exploitation in the sense that someone working under the table does not receive the same protections that a legal worker would under law, but it seems moot when the same government promising those protections says you're not entitled to work at all. Considering this, rather than outright condemning the employer, I defer to asking whether the employee is better or worse off in the end.
lesuorac 5y ago
[Citation Needed] Many illegal immigrants pay taxes as they need an SSN (not theirs) to work. https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2016/09/undocumented-immigrants-and-taxes/499604/ https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2016/09/undocum...

With this strict standard, what do we do with 11+m illegal immigrants in the US? Getting paid in cash, are they indulging in tax evasion or in tax avoidance?

by cft 5y ago

With this strict standard, what do we do with 11+m illegal immigrants in the US? Getting paid in cash, are they indulging in tax evasion or in tax avoidance?

rsstack 5y ago

First, many of them aren't cash only. Second, a single enforcement mechanism of the IRS isn't supposed to catch all infractions. The IRS, and other federal and state agencies, have other mechanisms than asking Venmo to report transactions.

Broken_Hippo 5y ago

That's obviously a different beast. To deal with a bunch of folks getting paid under the table, the obvious answer is to jail the person paying them in cash, and then investigate them to see if they are exploiting folks in other ways as well. Without exploitation of this sort, folks without paperwork find it harder to be employed. If you want to reduce illegal immigration, a good starting point is to look at laws and make sure they are not only fair, but easy for the would-be immigrant to follow. Most folks in the US 'illegally' started out being legal, after all, and you realistically want to close that gap. And so we are clear, asylum seekers aren't "illegal".

ahefner 5y ago
Paying people for work and enabling them to earn a living constitutes exploitation?
- Broken_Hippo 5y ago
  This is a misrepresentation. Paying folks under the table is a sign of exploitation - and undocumented folks easily fall into exploitation. I would have thought a fair reading would have come to this conclusion. Of course it isn't always that way.
  - ahefner 5y ago
    It may be a misreading, but not an intentional misrepresentation. I suppose it depends on how you interpret the term "exploitation". Most frequently this is used implying some harm is being done to the exploited party. My comment is to argue this is not the case here, as they would be strictly worse off without this employment. The employer is certainly exploiting an opportunity to employ the undocumented worker, but (arguing about words here) that does not constitute them "being exploited". Arguably, both honest tax-paying employers and employees are "being exploited" by the government by way of it collecting income tax. Depending on your point of view, the greatest harm here is either self-inflicted by the worker, by coming to the country and putting them self in this situation, or by the government, by inventing rules dictating that a person is not legally allowed to work, punitively disincentiving their becoming "documented" with the threat of deportation versus the convoluted immigration process, etc. Giving it some thought, I can relate that there is some potential for exploitation in the sense that someone working under the table does not receive the same protections that a legal worker would under law, but it seems moot when the same government promising those protections says you're not entitled to work at all. Considering this, rather than outright condemning the employer, I defer to asking whether the employee is better or worse off in the end.

lesuorac 5y ago

[Citation Needed] Many illegal immigrants pay taxes as they need an SSN (not theirs) to work. https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2016/09/undocumented-immigrants-and-taxes/499604/ https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2016/09/undocum...