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On a related side note. I find that this is yet another topic that highlights the need for efforts to bring legislation back in line with Constitutional princip

On a related side note. I find that this is yet another topic that highlights the need for efforts to bring legislation back in line with Constitutional principles of being outcome, not method oriented; descriptive, not prescriptive. What that may mean is that legislation would require, e.g., that anyone doing any business with the government or using any government/public services (e.g., GPS) must utilize technologies that are common and compatible with each other both physically (parts) and data (communications, controls, etc.). We are facing a situation that was last encountered or at least recognized in the late 80s and 90s, where silos and cartels were starting to emerge that led to massive waste and pillage of at least the public coffers. That led to a wave of standardization efforts in the late 90s and early 00s. That wave seems to have started dying out and really needs to be revitalized.

conradev 5y ago
1000% For example, California wants to electrify lawn equipment: https://ww2.arb.ca.gov/our-work/programs/zero-emission-landscaping-equipment https://ww2.arb.ca.gov/our-work/programs/zero-emission-lands... There are a number of competing ecosystems of batteries. They each have a leaf blower that takes a different form factor battery: https://www.ryobitools.com/products/details/46396029911 https://www.ryobitools.com/products/details/46396029911 https://www.dewalt.com/products/outdoor/blowers/20v-max-lithium-ion-xr-brushless-handheld-blower-bare/dcbl722b https://www.dewalt.com/products/outdoor/blowers/20v-max-lith... https://www.milwaukeetool.com/Products/Safety-Solutions/Emissions/2724-20 https://www.milwaukeetool.com/Products/Safety-Solutions/Emis... Batteries are expensive and use a lot of carbon to produce, so the world would be better off if these batteries were fully interchangeable.
- aardvarkr 5y ago
  Action like that would freeze innovation at a time when we want to keep pushing the boundaries of what is possible. All three of those systems use different voltages or designs that change power output and weight distribution. On top of that, each brand is incentivized to keep experimenting to improve the battery design for their specific use cases. Dewalt, for example, is making lawn mowers that use two of their 20v batteries in parallel so you can use the same batteries in your mower as you do in your drill. The Ryobi batteries haven't changed since they were first introduced so the old drill that you bought in 2014 is still usable with today's batteries.
  - barbazoo 5y ago
    Is there an example where regulation like this actually did stifle innovation?
  - notjulianjaynes 5y ago
    18v and 20v"max" tool batteries are two names for the same thing: a 5 series configuration of li-on cells rated for 3.7v nominal/4.2v max charge. To my knowledge none of these companies are manufacturing cells directly, and the only thing that is different between them is the shape of the connector, and the design/firmware of the battery management system. And the connectors are mostly not all that different, just variations on a theme designed to explicitly prevent cross compatibility. I don't see a compelling reason these couldn't be standardized, nor why this wouldn't lead to more innovation as manufacturers will have to compete on merit, rather than vendor lock in. Batteries are getting so good nowadays. Imagine if instead of everything needing its own special battery you just had a few quality packs that were interoperable with all your tools/devices/ebike/etc. *Edit: grammar
alfalfasprout 5y ago
The problem is that such an approach requires a fair bit of nuance to get it right and not stifle innovation. For example, the last thing anyone wants is the establishment of super slow to change standards that bring everyone to the "lowest common denominator". I believe that simply requiring certain standards to have a freely available specification + right to repair will get us in a good place.

conradev 5y ago

1000% For example, California wants to electrify lawn equipment: https://ww2.arb.ca.gov/our-work/programs/zero-emission-landscaping-equipment https://ww2.arb.ca.gov/our-work/programs/zero-emission-lands... There are a number of competing ecosystems of batteries. They each have a leaf blower that takes a different form factor battery: https://www.ryobitools.com/products/details/46396029911 https://www.ryobitools.com/products/details/46396029911 https://www.dewalt.com/products/outdoor/blowers/20v-max-lithium-ion-xr-brushless-handheld-blower-bare/dcbl722b https://www.dewalt.com/products/outdoor/blowers/20v-max-lith... https://www.milwaukeetool.com/Products/Safety-Solutions/Emissions/2724-20 https://www.milwaukeetool.com/Products/Safety-Solutions/Emis... Batteries are expensive and use a lot of carbon to produce, so the world would be better off if these batteries were fully interchangeable.

aardvarkr 5y ago
Action like that would freeze innovation at a time when we want to keep pushing the boundaries of what is possible. All three of those systems use different voltages or designs that change power output and weight distribution. On top of that, each brand is incentivized to keep experimenting to improve the battery design for their specific use cases. Dewalt, for example, is making lawn mowers that use two of their 20v batteries in parallel so you can use the same batteries in your mower as you do in your drill. The Ryobi batteries haven't changed since they were first introduced so the old drill that you bought in 2014 is still usable with today's batteries.
- barbazoo 5y ago
  Is there an example where regulation like this actually did stifle innovation?
- notjulianjaynes 5y ago
  18v and 20v"max" tool batteries are two names for the same thing: a 5 series configuration of li-on cells rated for 3.7v nominal/4.2v max charge. To my knowledge none of these companies are manufacturing cells directly, and the only thing that is different between them is the shape of the connector, and the design/firmware of the battery management system. And the connectors are mostly not all that different, just variations on a theme designed to explicitly prevent cross compatibility. I don't see a compelling reason these couldn't be standardized, nor why this wouldn't lead to more innovation as manufacturers will have to compete on merit, rather than vendor lock in. Batteries are getting so good nowadays. Imagine if instead of everything needing its own special battery you just had a few quality packs that were interoperable with all your tools/devices/ebike/etc. *Edit: grammar

alfalfasprout 5y ago

The problem is that such an approach requires a fair bit of nuance to get it right and not stifle innovation. For example, the last thing anyone wants is the establishment of super slow to change standards that bring everyone to the "lowest common denominator". I believe that simply requiring certain standards to have a freely available specification + right to repair will get us in a good place.