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Is there a reason that some Asian or even European competitors can't just come in and offer the same kind of features and services without all the lock-in, acti

Is there a reason that some Asian or even European competitors can't just come in and offer the same kind of features and services without all the lock-in, actively taking market share by being the anti-monopolist? Maybe I'm missing something, but I can't see the brand loyalty to Deere lasting too much longer, especially if some of the Asian competitors can make offerings without all the shackling.

ChuckNorris89 5y ago
Because it's a heavily entrenched industry that's not easily disrupted, where each brand has carved it's on territory by geography and there's this silent gentlemen's agreement of "you stay out of my market, I stay out of yours and we all win" since even if the other competitor would attempt to come in the other market, it would face an uphill and insanely expensive battle just to enter the market, as in order to capture any market share it would need to undercut its competitor on cost while offering superior quality, while spending insane money on the supply chains and world class service and tech network which guarantees the up-time of your machinery, thereby weakening the profit margins not just for themselves but potentially the whole market. So why would you want to do something as risky and foolish as that when you got a good thing going?
- giantg2 5y ago
  I'm not sure which brands are owned by Deere, but there are quite a few available in the US, depending on scale. I specifically think that LS is foreign, but don't remember for sure.
- onion2k 5y ago
  silent gentlemen's agreement We assume it's silent but we probably shouldn't. It could be a boring old cartel. Someone should check.
- gunapologist99 5y ago
  > Because it's a heavily entrenched industry that's not easily disrupted, where each brand has carved it's on territory by geography and there's this silent gentlemen's agreement of "you stay out of my market, I stay out of yours and we all win Do you know that this is the case or are you speculating? It seems like there's an intense amount of competition, especially with imported farming equipment. (I have no idea if John Deere sells overseas or if it's mostly a domestic brand.) Some other manufacturers that seem to have big branding in the U.S. are New Holland (just found out they're owned by Fiat.. small world), Mahindra, and Kubota. Are those all part of this cartel that you're alleging exists?
  - ChuckNorris89 5y ago
    >Do you know that this is the case or are you speculating? I don't work in farming but I worked for an European HW manufacturer that's top in Europe in that niche and the CEO back then told us we're not aggressively pursuing expansion outside of Europe since US, China, Japan, Korea have their own local champions in this market and it's not profitable to go to war with them on their own turf, so he told us about this silent gentlemen's agreement where everyone keeps to his own market so we can all profit as "the pie is big enough for everyone, if we start fighting over it then we'd all lose". I assume the same business concept applies here.
  - mitchell_h 5y ago
    He's full of it. I do have a background in farming. Case, and Deere go head to head in almost every market. New Holland and a couple others also play in the same markets depending on what KIND of machine you're looking to run. Tillage tractors are pretty much fendt/challenger, NH, deere, case. When you get into combines/coppers other brands also play. For the consumer and/or smaller tractor market there's all sorts of options. Why people go deere or case is simple. It's the supply chains. You have N days to get your crop in the ground, and Y days to get your crop harvested. Deere and case have the best(and most expensive) field techs and dealer support. "A machine is only as good as your dealer support" is the phase almost everyone uses when shopping for equipment. Anyone with a significant investment of tractors(non-hobby farmers) can have a case or deere tech replace or fix damn near anything in hours or days, on site.
    - randomdata 5y ago
      > Tillage tractors are pretty much fendt/challenger, NH, deere, case. Versatile is making inroads again. Starting to see quite a few of them around.
    - akvadrako 5y ago
      This seems the most imformative comment in this discussion. So if there is competition and Deere is really the best, I don't see the issue. The right incentives are there to make farming better.
jevoten 5y ago
Because after you spend $N billion catching up to Deere's manufacturing and expertise, they'll suddenly realize that yes, it's essential that farmers be able to control and repair their own equipment, and will use their massive war chest built on unethical practices to undercut you. And when you're out of business, they'll go back to their old ways.
biorach 5y ago
It's not a monopoly. There are plenty of manufacturers in the market. However JD has significant, if not leading, market share in many markets along with being regarded as a premium brand, and has significant loyalty among a demographic where memories are long and loyalty counts. They do make really really good machines, and their top-end gear is very highly regarded. All the above has allowed them to get away with some dubious practices. However farmers are also very cost conscious and there is growing dissatisfaction at the blatant lock-in.
wldcordeiro 5y ago
I imagine it's a smaller version of the American cars vs Japanese cars attitude that really peaked during the 70s and 80s. It's still around to this day where you meet people who are Chevy or Ford die-hards and hate all cars Japanese. Considering that trucks are often farming equipment and Chevy and Ford make trucks it would make sense people would have similar attitude about their dedicated farm equipment coming from John Deere vs Yamaha (a joke example since they make things from pianos to motorcycles.)
- isk517 5y ago
  Your probably on to something. I remember a lot of people getting excited when John Deere farm equipment was introduced into Farm Simulator 2019.
deleted 5y ago
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HeyLaughingBoy 5y ago
What's their incentive to do that when they could come in with a different lock-in now that it's been proven to be profitable to do so by JD? > I can't see the brand loyalty to Deere lasting too much longer Here's an anecdote: if I go into Fleet Farm or Tractor Supply (farm supply stores), I see John Deere toy tractors, in fact my son has one: they're very well built. I don't think I've ever seen any other brand of toy tractor. That alone says a lot.

ChuckNorris89 5y ago

Because it's a heavily entrenched industry that's not easily disrupted, where each brand has carved it's on territory by geography and there's this silent gentlemen's agreement of "you stay out of my market, I stay out of yours and we all win" since even if the other competitor would attempt to come in the other market, it would face an uphill and insanely expensive battle just to enter the market, as in order to capture any market share it would need to undercut its competitor on cost while offering superior quality, while spending insane money on the supply chains and world class service and tech network which guarantees the up-time of your machinery, thereby weakening the profit margins not just for themselves but potentially the whole market. So why would you want to do something as risky and foolish as that when you got a good thing going?

giantg2 5y ago
I'm not sure which brands are owned by Deere, but there are quite a few available in the US, depending on scale. I specifically think that LS is foreign, but don't remember for sure.
onion2k 5y ago
silent gentlemen's agreement We assume it's silent but we probably shouldn't. It could be a boring old cartel. Someone should check.
gunapologist99 5y ago
> Because it's a heavily entrenched industry that's not easily disrupted, where each brand has carved it's on territory by geography and there's this silent gentlemen's agreement of "you stay out of my market, I stay out of yours and we all win Do you know that this is the case or are you speculating? It seems like there's an intense amount of competition, especially with imported farming equipment. (I have no idea if John Deere sells overseas or if it's mostly a domestic brand.) Some other manufacturers that seem to have big branding in the U.S. are New Holland (just found out they're owned by Fiat.. small world), Mahindra, and Kubota. Are those all part of this cartel that you're alleging exists?
- ChuckNorris89 5y ago
  >Do you know that this is the case or are you speculating? I don't work in farming but I worked for an European HW manufacturer that's top in Europe in that niche and the CEO back then told us we're not aggressively pursuing expansion outside of Europe since US, China, Japan, Korea have their own local champions in this market and it's not profitable to go to war with them on their own turf, so he told us about this silent gentlemen's agreement where everyone keeps to his own market so we can all profit as "the pie is big enough for everyone, if we start fighting over it then we'd all lose". I assume the same business concept applies here.
- mitchell_h 5y ago
  He's full of it. I do have a background in farming. Case, and Deere go head to head in almost every market. New Holland and a couple others also play in the same markets depending on what KIND of machine you're looking to run. Tillage tractors are pretty much fendt/challenger, NH, deere, case. When you get into combines/coppers other brands also play. For the consumer and/or smaller tractor market there's all sorts of options. Why people go deere or case is simple. It's the supply chains. You have N days to get your crop in the ground, and Y days to get your crop harvested. Deere and case have the best(and most expensive) field techs and dealer support. "A machine is only as good as your dealer support" is the phase almost everyone uses when shopping for equipment. Anyone with a significant investment of tractors(non-hobby farmers) can have a case or deere tech replace or fix damn near anything in hours or days, on site.
  - randomdata 5y ago
    > Tillage tractors are pretty much fendt/challenger, NH, deere, case. Versatile is making inroads again. Starting to see quite a few of them around.
  - akvadrako 5y ago
    This seems the most imformative comment in this discussion. So if there is competition and Deere is really the best, I don't see the issue. The right incentives are there to make farming better.

jevoten 5y ago

Because after you spend $N billion catching up to Deere's manufacturing and expertise, they'll suddenly realize that yes, it's essential that farmers be able to control and repair their own equipment, and will use their massive war chest built on unethical practices to undercut you. And when you're out of business, they'll go back to their old ways.

biorach 5y ago

It's not a monopoly. There are plenty of manufacturers in the market. However JD has significant, if not leading, market share in many markets along with being regarded as a premium brand, and has significant loyalty among a demographic where memories are long and loyalty counts. They do make really really good machines, and their top-end gear is very highly regarded. All the above has allowed them to get away with some dubious practices. However farmers are also very cost conscious and there is growing dissatisfaction at the blatant lock-in.

wldcordeiro 5y ago

I imagine it's a smaller version of the American cars vs Japanese cars attitude that really peaked during the 70s and 80s. It's still around to this day where you meet people who are Chevy or Ford die-hards and hate all cars Japanese. Considering that trucks are often farming equipment and Chevy and Ford make trucks it would make sense people would have similar attitude about their dedicated farm equipment coming from John Deere vs Yamaha (a joke example since they make things from pianos to motorcycles.)

isk517 5y ago
Your probably on to something. I remember a lot of people getting excited when John Deere farm equipment was introduced into Farm Simulator 2019.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

HeyLaughingBoy 5y ago

What's their incentive to do that when they could come in with a different lock-in now that it's been proven to be profitable to do so by JD? > I can't see the brand loyalty to Deere lasting too much longer Here's an anecdote: if I go into Fleet Farm or Tractor Supply (farm supply stores), I see John Deere toy tractors, in fact my son has one: they're very well built. I don't think I've ever seen any other brand of toy tractor. That alone says a lot.