4 ms·

How do you prove that you are a citizen in countries without IDs? Do you just use birth certificates for everything important?

dijit 5y ago
In the UK; weird. 2 proofs of address, bank statements/utility bills etc; that are sent to your address with your name on. 1 form of citizenship proof such as birth certificate. Additionally, Depending on “proof” level: notarized passport photo (by someone who is considered trustworthy, police officer, business owner, doctor) and whom is not related but whom you have known greater than 5 years. Also additionally, parents birth certificates. Had to do the last two to get my passport, notarized passport photo with two different people that were not family that I’d known for 5 years.
- kasperni 5y ago
  Recently moved to the UK from Denmark. E-government wise I would say the UK is at least 10 years behind. And now instead of just one authority that has my details. I've lost count of how many places I've had to send a copy of my passport. It just does not make any sense to not have some kind of national eID.
  - alibarber 5y ago
    How easy is it to access that in Denmark though if you're not a citizen? I moved from the UK to Finland and had to: - Visit the Imigration office with my passport (as an EU citizen I might add) where they took a copy - Visit the local registry office with a bit of paper from the above, and my passport, where they took a copy - Visit the tax office with my passport, where they took a copy - Only then could I visit the police station with my passport (where, you guessed it) and/or a bank, with the passport (yes the photocopier worked well there too) in order to get access to the E-ID service. Which I will agree does make e-government superior to that of the UK, but, it was not 'frictionless' in the begining. Also, a lot of EU people get caught out by the first step requiring an appointment which is usually months out (as being non-eu, weirdly you're almost in a better position because you can, or rather have to, get that done before you leave your own country) Completely agree though that even as a citizen and living there all my life (until a couple of years ago) - the 'gas bill/bank statement' thing is a massive PITA. However a lot of places are trying to work out a better system and will use credit reports and fuzzy logic to validate your information to a threshold they're happy with. This is also something the government themselves are working on. Interestingly, as much as the Finnish system has saved me time, I just don't agree with the idea that the government should maintain some centrally accessible and enforceable registry of where everyone lives.
motohagiography 5y ago
"Important" is the key word there. Going to a restaurant, leaving ones house, going to concerts, participating in sports, are not an important time to show a linked identification document and have it remotely verified by an authority, and recorded. Contriving the important instances is what makes internal passport systems oppressive.
KennyBlanken 5y ago
I mean, in the US for decades "are you a citizen" seems to have revolved around whether you can present a yellowed piece of paper that has absolutely zero security features: your social security card. Sometimes a birth certificate, which has only slightly more security features.

dijit 5y ago

In the UK; weird. 2 proofs of address, bank statements/utility bills etc; that are sent to your address with your name on. 1 form of citizenship proof such as birth certificate. Additionally, Depending on “proof” level: notarized passport photo (by someone who is considered trustworthy, police officer, business owner, doctor) and whom is not related but whom you have known greater than 5 years. Also additionally, parents birth certificates. Had to do the last two to get my passport, notarized passport photo with two different people that were not family that I’d known for 5 years.

kasperni 5y ago
Recently moved to the UK from Denmark. E-government wise I would say the UK is at least 10 years behind. And now instead of just one authority that has my details. I've lost count of how many places I've had to send a copy of my passport. It just does not make any sense to not have some kind of national eID.
- alibarber 5y ago
  How easy is it to access that in Denmark though if you're not a citizen? I moved from the UK to Finland and had to: - Visit the Imigration office with my passport (as an EU citizen I might add) where they took a copy - Visit the local registry office with a bit of paper from the above, and my passport, where they took a copy - Visit the tax office with my passport, where they took a copy - Only then could I visit the police station with my passport (where, you guessed it) and/or a bank, with the passport (yes the photocopier worked well there too) in order to get access to the E-ID service. Which I will agree does make e-government superior to that of the UK, but, it was not 'frictionless' in the begining. Also, a lot of EU people get caught out by the first step requiring an appointment which is usually months out (as being non-eu, weirdly you're almost in a better position because you can, or rather have to, get that done before you leave your own country) Completely agree though that even as a citizen and living there all my life (until a couple of years ago) - the 'gas bill/bank statement' thing is a massive PITA. However a lot of places are trying to work out a better system and will use credit reports and fuzzy logic to validate your information to a threshold they're happy with. This is also something the government themselves are working on. Interestingly, as much as the Finnish system has saved me time, I just don't agree with the idea that the government should maintain some centrally accessible and enforceable registry of where everyone lives.

motohagiography 5y ago

"Important" is the key word there. Going to a restaurant, leaving ones house, going to concerts, participating in sports, are not an important time to show a linked identification document and have it remotely verified by an authority, and recorded. Contriving the important instances is what makes internal passport systems oppressive.

KennyBlanken 5y ago

I mean, in the US for decades "are you a citizen" seems to have revolved around whether you can present a yellowed piece of paper that has absolutely zero security features: your social security card. Sometimes a birth certificate, which has only slightly more security features.