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People Are Keeping Unvaccinated Covid Deaths Secret

5 points by belltaco 5y ago

robthebrew 5y ago
There are no winners in this. First the pro-vax say that antivaxxers do not process facts. Now it seems those pro-vax refuse to gain evidence prior to social judgement. May be this is relevant to the discussion? https://phys.org/news/2022-01-rationality-declined-decades.html https://phys.org/news/2022-01-rationality-declined-decades.h...
- smt88 5y ago
  > Now it seems those pro-vax refuse to gain evidence prior to social judgement. What do you mean by this? What should "pro-vax" (i.e. the vast majority of developed countries) be doing differently?
  - Arnt 5y ago
    We should be kind, gentle and not "question […] medical choices". IMO when someone has died is an excellent time to hold one's tongue and offer condolance. Even if the deceased person was one of those whose "medical choices" isn't just their own choice, it has real impact on us all by blocking access to hospitals. There are many good times to flame them, just after someone's died is not such a time.
    - smt88 5y ago
      1. Weird that you responded for another person. I'm not sure if they would agree with you or not. 2. I don't know why you think there is widespread "flaming" of unvaccinated people among vaccinated people. There are niche communities of assholes on reddit and Twitter who do it, and they don't represent even a tiny fraction of pro-science, pro-vaccine people.
macilacilove 5y ago
I think authorities are keeping vaccinated non-covid deaths secret. Or maybe not. But we will not learn the answer from theatlantic.com.
- smt88 5y ago
  Why would "authorities" (please specify who you're referring to) do this? What do they gain from promoting vaccines?
  - macilacilove 5y ago
    Government, health organizations such as CDC & WHO and "authoritative" news sources. They may want to promote the vaccines because they are good, and they want the pandemic to be over right?* The question is whether they are doing it honestly or not. I think not. They decided that there is a conclusion that they want people to reach, and they are willing to go as far as obstructing facts to make you reach that. * they may have additional reasons related to conflicts of interest, corruption, etc.
    - smt88 5y ago
      > they are willing to go as far as obstructing facts to make you reach that Vaccine information is collected and verified by thousands of people at hundreds of organizations around the world. It is not conceivable that any actor less than a dictator of a major nation-state could manipulate that information. That essentially leaves Xi and Putin as the only people who could and would do it. In other countries, we have publicly-verifiable clinical trials, data from millions of people, and thousands of independent researchers in academia and hospitals. If you think the CDC, WHO, and Biden admin have gotten behind science or made bad decisions, I completely agree. They have made some incredibly stupid choices. If you think there is a systematic obstruction of facts that has actually succeeded at blinding independent researchers and the public, you are going to have to provide citations.
- bitxbitxbitcoin 5y ago
  Are you referring to the authorities that have authority over The Atlantic or the authorities that have authority over death reporting?

5 points by belltaco 5y ago

There are no winners in this. First the pro-vax say that antivaxxers do not process facts. Now it seems those pro-vax refuse to gain evidence prior to social judgement. May be this is relevant to the discussion? https://phys.org/news/2022-01-rationality-declined-decades.html https://phys.org/news/2022-01-rationality-declined-decades.h...

smt88 5y ago
> Now it seems those pro-vax refuse to gain evidence prior to social judgement. What do you mean by this? What should "pro-vax" (i.e. the vast majority of developed countries) be doing differently?
- Arnt 5y ago
  We should be kind, gentle and not "question […] medical choices". IMO when someone has died is an excellent time to hold one's tongue and offer condolance. Even if the deceased person was one of those whose "medical choices" isn't just their own choice, it has real impact on us all by blocking access to hospitals. There are many good times to flame them, just after someone's died is not such a time.
  - smt88 5y ago
    1. Weird that you responded for another person. I'm not sure if they would agree with you or not. 2. I don't know why you think there is widespread "flaming" of unvaccinated people among vaccinated people. There are niche communities of assholes on reddit and Twitter who do it, and they don't represent even a tiny fraction of pro-science, pro-vaccine people.

macilacilove 5y ago

I think authorities are keeping vaccinated non-covid deaths secret. Or maybe not. But we will not learn the answer from theatlantic.com.

smt88 5y ago
Why would "authorities" (please specify who you're referring to) do this? What do they gain from promoting vaccines?
- macilacilove 5y ago
  Government, health organizations such as CDC & WHO and "authoritative" news sources. They may want to promote the vaccines because they are good, and they want the pandemic to be over right?* The question is whether they are doing it honestly or not. I think not. They decided that there is a conclusion that they want people to reach, and they are willing to go as far as obstructing facts to make you reach that. * they may have additional reasons related to conflicts of interest, corruption, etc.
  - smt88 5y ago
    > they are willing to go as far as obstructing facts to make you reach that Vaccine information is collected and verified by thousands of people at hundreds of organizations around the world. It is not conceivable that any actor less than a dictator of a major nation-state could manipulate that information. That essentially leaves Xi and Putin as the only people who could and would do it. In other countries, we have publicly-verifiable clinical trials, data from millions of people, and thousands of independent researchers in academia and hospitals. If you think the CDC, WHO, and Biden admin have gotten behind science or made bad decisions, I completely agree. They have made some incredibly stupid choices. If you think there is a systematic obstruction of facts that has actually succeeded at blinding independent researchers and the public, you are going to have to provide citations.
bitxbitxbitcoin 5y ago
Are you referring to the authorities that have authority over The Atlantic or the authorities that have authority over death reporting?